Return to Transcripts main page
American Morning
Will Martha Do Time?
Aired June 04, 2003 - 07:25 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Well, a legal cloud hangs over her, but Martha Stewart's lawyer says she has not yet begun to fight. If, as expected, Stewart is indicted in an insider trading scandal, her attorney says she's prepared to go to trial. Stewart is being investigated for her sale of ImClone stock in December of 2001.
Let's bring in our legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin to talk about the looming federal indictment and Stewart's options -- good morning.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Not good.
KAGAN: Not good.
TOOBIN: Not good, her options.
KAGAN: If you look at -- yes. How, well, how much trouble really is Martha Stewart in?
TOOBIN: A world of trouble. This -- as early as today we are going to see Martha Stewart doing the perp walk in lower Manhattan...
KAGAN: Really?
TOOBIN: Maybe with handcuffs. That will undoubtedly be negotiated. But she is being indicted and it's a criminal case. She's looking at jail time. This is a disaster for her.
KAGAN: When you talk -- I mean, jail -- seriously, Martha Stewart, what are the chances of Martha Stewart going to jail?
TOOBIN: You know, her case, if you look at it under the federal sentencing guidelines, falls just about on the borderline between those that require prison and those that don't. But there is a real possibility that if she forces the government to go to trial -- and apparently plea talks have fallen down -- if she testifies and the judge believes she's testifying falsely, jail time, I would say, is virtually a certainty.
KAGAN: How did she get to this point? This is from a legal person here who says the case against Martha is not really that strong.
TOOBIN: You know, I thought it wasn't and I still think this is a very tough case. Obviously, the government has access to information that I don't have, but when I looked at the case for the "New Yorker" in January, I didn't see a strong case here. Two parts to it. Did she have insider trading when she sold about a quarter of a million dollars worth of stock in ImClone a year and a half ago? And then did she lie about it to investigators?
It's generally believed that the obstruction case is somewhat stronger, but both of them are circumstantial cases. There is not, as far as we know, a cooperating witnesses, although Peter Bacanovic, the stockbroker, no one knows what he'll say. This is a tough case for the government as far as I can tell.
But, you know, the U.S. attorney's office in Manhattan, they don't go off half cocked on these cases. They must think they have a strong case or they wouldn't be prosecuting her.
KAGAN: They must have something. But if it does go to trial, this isn't necessarily something we would see, because it would be federal court.
TOOBIN: Federal court, no cameras in the courtroom.
KAGAN: Yes.
TOOBIN: But I have a feeling it will still get a good deal of publicity with Martha Stewart on trial.
KAGAN: Somehow. Somehow.
Jeffrey Toobin, thanks for coming back.
In the next hour we're going to talk a little bit more about this and get the inside scoop on why Martha.
TOOBIN: All right.
KAGAN: Of all the bad things that have happened in the business world, why Martha?
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired June 4, 2003 - 07:25 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Well, a legal cloud hangs over her, but Martha Stewart's lawyer says she has not yet begun to fight. If, as expected, Stewart is indicted in an insider trading scandal, her attorney says she's prepared to go to trial. Stewart is being investigated for her sale of ImClone stock in December of 2001.
Let's bring in our legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin to talk about the looming federal indictment and Stewart's options -- good morning.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Not good.
KAGAN: Not good.
TOOBIN: Not good, her options.
KAGAN: If you look at -- yes. How, well, how much trouble really is Martha Stewart in?
TOOBIN: A world of trouble. This -- as early as today we are going to see Martha Stewart doing the perp walk in lower Manhattan...
KAGAN: Really?
TOOBIN: Maybe with handcuffs. That will undoubtedly be negotiated. But she is being indicted and it's a criminal case. She's looking at jail time. This is a disaster for her.
KAGAN: When you talk -- I mean, jail -- seriously, Martha Stewart, what are the chances of Martha Stewart going to jail?
TOOBIN: You know, her case, if you look at it under the federal sentencing guidelines, falls just about on the borderline between those that require prison and those that don't. But there is a real possibility that if she forces the government to go to trial -- and apparently plea talks have fallen down -- if she testifies and the judge believes she's testifying falsely, jail time, I would say, is virtually a certainty.
KAGAN: How did she get to this point? This is from a legal person here who says the case against Martha is not really that strong.
TOOBIN: You know, I thought it wasn't and I still think this is a very tough case. Obviously, the government has access to information that I don't have, but when I looked at the case for the "New Yorker" in January, I didn't see a strong case here. Two parts to it. Did she have insider trading when she sold about a quarter of a million dollars worth of stock in ImClone a year and a half ago? And then did she lie about it to investigators?
It's generally believed that the obstruction case is somewhat stronger, but both of them are circumstantial cases. There is not, as far as we know, a cooperating witnesses, although Peter Bacanovic, the stockbroker, no one knows what he'll say. This is a tough case for the government as far as I can tell.
But, you know, the U.S. attorney's office in Manhattan, they don't go off half cocked on these cases. They must think they have a strong case or they wouldn't be prosecuting her.
KAGAN: They must have something. But if it does go to trial, this isn't necessarily something we would see, because it would be federal court.
TOOBIN: Federal court, no cameras in the courtroom.
KAGAN: Yes.
TOOBIN: But I have a feeling it will still get a good deal of publicity with Martha Stewart on trial.
KAGAN: Somehow. Somehow.
Jeffrey Toobin, thanks for coming back.
In the next hour we're going to talk a little bit more about this and get the inside scoop on why Martha.
TOOBIN: All right.
KAGAN: Of all the bad things that have happened in the business world, why Martha?
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
