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American Morning
Interview With Seth Mnookin of 'Newsweek'
Aired June 06, 2003 - 08:16 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: The top two editors of the "New York Times" resigned yesterday. It's the latest bombshell in the scandal that started with revelations about fraudulent reporting by Jayson Blair. Blair has finally spoken out and given a television interview. He talked to a New York television reporter about what he is calling a human tragedy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAYSON BLAIR: It's a complicated human tragedy and that's the part that's been lost in all of this talk about race and all of the talk about the "Times" and racial preferences is the human tragedy that I hope people can learn from.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KAGAN: "Newsweek's" senior media writer Seth Mnookin wrote a cover story for the magazine about the scandal and he is with us here this morning -- Seth, good morning.
SETH MNOOKIN, SENIOR MEDIA WRITER, "NEWSWEEK": It's good to be here.
KAGAN: You've had a chance to talk with Jayson Blair quite a bit yourself, having seen the interview he gave to a local television station.
What do you think about what he had to say?
MNOOKIN: Well, the amazing thing is almost everyone else has realized that this scandal is not about Jayson Blair anymore. It's about the institutional problems at the "Times." And he is so mono- maniacal and so consumed with seeing himself at the center of this that he's still saying look what I brought about and I'm sorry. Now, a month too late, he's finally saying that he's sorry. And that's really sort of not that surprising, but kind of sad.
KAGAN: Sad and rather pathetic.
MNOOKIN: Right.
KAGAN: Look, go back and look at what happened yesterday, Howell Raines and Gerald Boyd both stepping down together at the same time. You've been covering this story. You know all the minutia.
MNOOKIN: Right.
KAGAN: But were you surprised to see that happen yesterday?
MNOOKIN: I wasn't surprised, but I was still somewhat shocked. I think over the past week a lot of the people who have been following this story and a lot of people in the "Times" suspected that this was going to be the inevitable conclusion.
But still, it was such an unprecedented day. And to see these two men, who had spent their entire careers to get to this point, take a bullet was shocking.
KAGAN: And yet is it enough to save the "Times"?
MNOOKIN: I think that hopefully right now the blood in the water will start to sort of clear and everyone will get a chance to move on. There are obviously some systemic problems with the paper, some management issues, some communication issues. And I think the hope is when Joe Lelyveld, now the interim executive editor, and then whoever they choose to lead the paper on a permanent basis, can get the consensus of the staff and go back to leading the paper to be the best paper in the country, which is what it's built its reputation on.
KAGAN: Bill and I were talking earlier, one of the really surprising things yesterday was to hear some of the staff members come out and be so public and so honest about what they thought about their now former bosses. Usually people say, well, this is a private matter or...
MNOOKIN: Right.
KAGAN: I mean people were rather scathing in what they had to say about these men.
MNOOKIN: Well, this, it was that everything reached a tipping point. There was a lot of resentment and there was a lot of frustration and anger about the management team. And all of that was kept inside. There was a fear that if you said anything publicly, you were going to be punished and finally when the dam broke a little bit, you saw everything coming out in the open.
Now, I think you're going to start to see a realization among people at the paper that it's not in our best interests anymore to go and beat our product out in the press. And you'll probably see a little bit of closing of the ranks and a sense that what we need to do is move on and go back to putting out a great newspaper.
KAGAN: You mentioned Joe Lelyveld, this is the man, a former executive editor. He's coming out of retirement to do this.
MNOOKIN: Right.
KAGAN: Also kind of taking one for the team.
MNOOKIN: Right.
KAGAN: He probably has a lot of other things he would rather be doing. He's interim, but who, if there's not a specific name, what is the type of person who now needs to lead the "Times"?
MNOOKIN: Well, the "Times" yesterday made an extraordinary statement and said that they would look both inside and outside the paper. The "Times" has always promoted from within its ranks and I think that's a sign of how much they realize that something needs to change. There are a number of names that are being bandied about, some people who are still at the "Times," some people who used to be at the "Times" and have left. And I think if we've learned anything in the past week, it's that we could still be shocked and surprised by what happens down the line. It could be someone that no one has even thought of.
But hopefully it will be someone who believes in open management, open lines of communication, because that seems to be where a lot of the frustration with this leadership team came from.
KAGAN: And just quickly, finally, I'm fascinated with the idea of anybody outside of New York City cares about the story. "Newsweek" is a national magazine.
MNOOKIN: Right.
KAGAN: You put it on the cover. What kind of response and reader interest did you get?
MNOOKIN: I was surprised. I think one of the things that this story has tapped into is a lot of the frustration and distrust of the media. And it's become, just as the story about Jayson Blair, it's become a story more about than about that one person. This story about the "New York Times" has become more than a story about one paper. And it's become really a reflection of how the country views the media elite, of which the "Times" is sort emblematic.
So I think there is interest, probably not as much as we all hear in New York, and I'm sure it's been a topic of all your conversations for the last day. But there is interest in the rest of the country.
KAGAN: All right, Seth Mnookin, thanks so much.
MNOOKIN: Thank you.
KAGAN: Appreciate it, from "Newsweek."
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired June 6, 2003 - 08:16 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: The top two editors of the "New York Times" resigned yesterday. It's the latest bombshell in the scandal that started with revelations about fraudulent reporting by Jayson Blair. Blair has finally spoken out and given a television interview. He talked to a New York television reporter about what he is calling a human tragedy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAYSON BLAIR: It's a complicated human tragedy and that's the part that's been lost in all of this talk about race and all of the talk about the "Times" and racial preferences is the human tragedy that I hope people can learn from.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KAGAN: "Newsweek's" senior media writer Seth Mnookin wrote a cover story for the magazine about the scandal and he is with us here this morning -- Seth, good morning.
SETH MNOOKIN, SENIOR MEDIA WRITER, "NEWSWEEK": It's good to be here.
KAGAN: You've had a chance to talk with Jayson Blair quite a bit yourself, having seen the interview he gave to a local television station.
What do you think about what he had to say?
MNOOKIN: Well, the amazing thing is almost everyone else has realized that this scandal is not about Jayson Blair anymore. It's about the institutional problems at the "Times." And he is so mono- maniacal and so consumed with seeing himself at the center of this that he's still saying look what I brought about and I'm sorry. Now, a month too late, he's finally saying that he's sorry. And that's really sort of not that surprising, but kind of sad.
KAGAN: Sad and rather pathetic.
MNOOKIN: Right.
KAGAN: Look, go back and look at what happened yesterday, Howell Raines and Gerald Boyd both stepping down together at the same time. You've been covering this story. You know all the minutia.
MNOOKIN: Right.
KAGAN: But were you surprised to see that happen yesterday?
MNOOKIN: I wasn't surprised, but I was still somewhat shocked. I think over the past week a lot of the people who have been following this story and a lot of people in the "Times" suspected that this was going to be the inevitable conclusion.
But still, it was such an unprecedented day. And to see these two men, who had spent their entire careers to get to this point, take a bullet was shocking.
KAGAN: And yet is it enough to save the "Times"?
MNOOKIN: I think that hopefully right now the blood in the water will start to sort of clear and everyone will get a chance to move on. There are obviously some systemic problems with the paper, some management issues, some communication issues. And I think the hope is when Joe Lelyveld, now the interim executive editor, and then whoever they choose to lead the paper on a permanent basis, can get the consensus of the staff and go back to leading the paper to be the best paper in the country, which is what it's built its reputation on.
KAGAN: Bill and I were talking earlier, one of the really surprising things yesterday was to hear some of the staff members come out and be so public and so honest about what they thought about their now former bosses. Usually people say, well, this is a private matter or...
MNOOKIN: Right.
KAGAN: I mean people were rather scathing in what they had to say about these men.
MNOOKIN: Well, this, it was that everything reached a tipping point. There was a lot of resentment and there was a lot of frustration and anger about the management team. And all of that was kept inside. There was a fear that if you said anything publicly, you were going to be punished and finally when the dam broke a little bit, you saw everything coming out in the open.
Now, I think you're going to start to see a realization among people at the paper that it's not in our best interests anymore to go and beat our product out in the press. And you'll probably see a little bit of closing of the ranks and a sense that what we need to do is move on and go back to putting out a great newspaper.
KAGAN: You mentioned Joe Lelyveld, this is the man, a former executive editor. He's coming out of retirement to do this.
MNOOKIN: Right.
KAGAN: Also kind of taking one for the team.
MNOOKIN: Right.
KAGAN: He probably has a lot of other things he would rather be doing. He's interim, but who, if there's not a specific name, what is the type of person who now needs to lead the "Times"?
MNOOKIN: Well, the "Times" yesterday made an extraordinary statement and said that they would look both inside and outside the paper. The "Times" has always promoted from within its ranks and I think that's a sign of how much they realize that something needs to change. There are a number of names that are being bandied about, some people who are still at the "Times," some people who used to be at the "Times" and have left. And I think if we've learned anything in the past week, it's that we could still be shocked and surprised by what happens down the line. It could be someone that no one has even thought of.
But hopefully it will be someone who believes in open management, open lines of communication, because that seems to be where a lot of the frustration with this leadership team came from.
KAGAN: And just quickly, finally, I'm fascinated with the idea of anybody outside of New York City cares about the story. "Newsweek" is a national magazine.
MNOOKIN: Right.
KAGAN: You put it on the cover. What kind of response and reader interest did you get?
MNOOKIN: I was surprised. I think one of the things that this story has tapped into is a lot of the frustration and distrust of the media. And it's become, just as the story about Jayson Blair, it's become a story more about than about that one person. This story about the "New York Times" has become more than a story about one paper. And it's become really a reflection of how the country views the media elite, of which the "Times" is sort emblematic.
So I think there is interest, probably not as much as we all hear in New York, and I'm sure it's been a topic of all your conversations for the last day. But there is interest in the rest of the country.
KAGAN: All right, Seth Mnookin, thanks so much.
MNOOKIN: Thank you.
KAGAN: Appreciate it, from "Newsweek."
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
