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American Morning
Al Qaeda & Iraq?
Aired June 10, 2003 - 09:14 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Leading up to the Iraq war, the White House frequently talked of a link between Saddam Hussein and Al Qaeda. No conclusive evidence of that has surfaced since the war ended. "The New York Times" reported yesterday that two high-ranking Al Qaeda leaders have separately told the CIA there is no link. Terrorism expert Brian Jenkins thinks that story is credible. He is in our Los Angeles bureau this morning to talk more about that.
Brian, good morning.
BRIAN JENKINS, TERRORISM EXPERT: Good morning.
KAGAN: First of all, should we be suspicious when leaks like this come out? We don't know where these people are being held, we don't know much about their interrogation. And so when the information comes out, it seems to me there is some kind of agenda in letting it be released?
JENKINS: There may be. One always has to be careful with information like this, because we don't have the complete story.
But the fact is even in the original case, information is often incomplete and often seems contradictory, although in this particular case it doesn't appear that contradictory. Relationships are complex, and they evolve over time. We know from previous reports, at least from some documents that were discovered in Iraq, that Al Qaeda and Iraq discussed the possibility of a relationship in 1998, but at that time, Osama bin Laden was secure in his camps in Afghanistan, did not want to beholden to Saddam Hussein, and rejected it.
But at the same time, we know that Al Qaeda exploited the suffering of the Iraqi people under the economic sanctions that were imposed on Iraq as propaganda, that Al Qaeda saw the approaching war with Iraq as a recruiting opportunity, and during the war itself, Osama bin Laden, you will remember, called for suicide bombers to attack the United States. So this was a relationship that was evolving as the circumstances changed.
KAGAN: I want to look at the two people in particular who we're talking about, Abu Zabayah (ph) and Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, their role within Al Qaeda, and why it's significant that they're in custody and talking?
JENKINS: Well, these were two key planners that were at the center of much of Al Qaeda's planning over the years. So they are certainly valuable sources of information. At the same time, while we know that they are talking, we know that what they tell us probably is some truth mixed with a great deal of fiction. And one is always attempting to figure out what portions are exactly true and what portions are deliberate disinformation.
KAGAN: President Bush is not afraid of critics. He responds to those who have suggested there was no link between Al Qaeda and Saddam Hussein.
Let's listen to a soundbite from the president:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH. PRES. OF THE UNITED STATES: I read a report that somehow, you know, that there is no Al Qaeda presence in Baghdad. I guess the people that wrote that article forgot Al Zacara's (ph) network inside of Baghdad that ordered the killing of a U.S. citizen, named Foley.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KAGAN: Brian, what do you say about that?
JENKINS: Well, the president is correct there. I mean, we do know that some of the members of Ansar (ph) Islam, a group that was in northern Iraq, had been trained at Al Qaeda's training camps in Afghanistan. We also know that after we attacked Afghanistan, that a lot of the Al Qaeda members were looking for other places of refuge, and some of them found refuge in Iraq with Ansar, and moreover, that Al Qaeda may have provided some sorts of assistance and direction to Ansar. This is consistent with their modus operandi, where they look around for, they are constantly on the prowl for other like-minded fanatics who they can provide some support to, and then use in future operation.
Again, you want to be careful with how we look at intelligence here. We've been highly critical of the intelligence community for not connecting the dots before September 11th, and now we're being a bit critical of the intelligence community for connecting some of the dots in the case of Iraq.
KAGAN: Not really fair to have it both ways.
but I do want to ask you about something else that is coming out of the intelligence community, and that is this U.S. government report prepared for the United Nations, saying that there is a high probability that Al Qaeda will attempt an attack with weapons of mass destruction within the next two years. What would you say about that?
JENKINS: I wouldn't treat it as a prediction. I would treat it as a warning. Certainly we know that Al Qaeda is still out there. These people haven't retired and moved to Miami. They are still determined to carry out attacks against the United States. They have said so. They have demonstrated that they want to do that. We know that they have experimented with unconventional weapons, with chemical weapons, with biological weapons. And, in fact, September 11th, although it did not involve chemical or biological weapons, was certainly a use of aircraft as weapons of mass destruction. This is something that we have to be prepared for. September 11th was not a one-time anomaly.
KAGAN: Brian Jenkins, thanks for your insight today, sir. Good to you have with us.
JENKINS: Thank you, Daryn.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired June 10, 2003 - 09:14 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Leading up to the Iraq war, the White House frequently talked of a link between Saddam Hussein and Al Qaeda. No conclusive evidence of that has surfaced since the war ended. "The New York Times" reported yesterday that two high-ranking Al Qaeda leaders have separately told the CIA there is no link. Terrorism expert Brian Jenkins thinks that story is credible. He is in our Los Angeles bureau this morning to talk more about that.
Brian, good morning.
BRIAN JENKINS, TERRORISM EXPERT: Good morning.
KAGAN: First of all, should we be suspicious when leaks like this come out? We don't know where these people are being held, we don't know much about their interrogation. And so when the information comes out, it seems to me there is some kind of agenda in letting it be released?
JENKINS: There may be. One always has to be careful with information like this, because we don't have the complete story.
But the fact is even in the original case, information is often incomplete and often seems contradictory, although in this particular case it doesn't appear that contradictory. Relationships are complex, and they evolve over time. We know from previous reports, at least from some documents that were discovered in Iraq, that Al Qaeda and Iraq discussed the possibility of a relationship in 1998, but at that time, Osama bin Laden was secure in his camps in Afghanistan, did not want to beholden to Saddam Hussein, and rejected it.
But at the same time, we know that Al Qaeda exploited the suffering of the Iraqi people under the economic sanctions that were imposed on Iraq as propaganda, that Al Qaeda saw the approaching war with Iraq as a recruiting opportunity, and during the war itself, Osama bin Laden, you will remember, called for suicide bombers to attack the United States. So this was a relationship that was evolving as the circumstances changed.
KAGAN: I want to look at the two people in particular who we're talking about, Abu Zabayah (ph) and Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, their role within Al Qaeda, and why it's significant that they're in custody and talking?
JENKINS: Well, these were two key planners that were at the center of much of Al Qaeda's planning over the years. So they are certainly valuable sources of information. At the same time, while we know that they are talking, we know that what they tell us probably is some truth mixed with a great deal of fiction. And one is always attempting to figure out what portions are exactly true and what portions are deliberate disinformation.
KAGAN: President Bush is not afraid of critics. He responds to those who have suggested there was no link between Al Qaeda and Saddam Hussein.
Let's listen to a soundbite from the president:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH. PRES. OF THE UNITED STATES: I read a report that somehow, you know, that there is no Al Qaeda presence in Baghdad. I guess the people that wrote that article forgot Al Zacara's (ph) network inside of Baghdad that ordered the killing of a U.S. citizen, named Foley.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KAGAN: Brian, what do you say about that?
JENKINS: Well, the president is correct there. I mean, we do know that some of the members of Ansar (ph) Islam, a group that was in northern Iraq, had been trained at Al Qaeda's training camps in Afghanistan. We also know that after we attacked Afghanistan, that a lot of the Al Qaeda members were looking for other places of refuge, and some of them found refuge in Iraq with Ansar, and moreover, that Al Qaeda may have provided some sorts of assistance and direction to Ansar. This is consistent with their modus operandi, where they look around for, they are constantly on the prowl for other like-minded fanatics who they can provide some support to, and then use in future operation.
Again, you want to be careful with how we look at intelligence here. We've been highly critical of the intelligence community for not connecting the dots before September 11th, and now we're being a bit critical of the intelligence community for connecting some of the dots in the case of Iraq.
KAGAN: Not really fair to have it both ways.
but I do want to ask you about something else that is coming out of the intelligence community, and that is this U.S. government report prepared for the United Nations, saying that there is a high probability that Al Qaeda will attempt an attack with weapons of mass destruction within the next two years. What would you say about that?
JENKINS: I wouldn't treat it as a prediction. I would treat it as a warning. Certainly we know that Al Qaeda is still out there. These people haven't retired and moved to Miami. They are still determined to carry out attacks against the United States. They have said so. They have demonstrated that they want to do that. We know that they have experimented with unconventional weapons, with chemical weapons, with biological weapons. And, in fact, September 11th, although it did not involve chemical or biological weapons, was certainly a use of aircraft as weapons of mass destruction. This is something that we have to be prepared for. September 11th was not a one-time anomaly.
KAGAN: Brian Jenkins, thanks for your insight today, sir. Good to you have with us.
JENKINS: Thank you, Daryn.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
