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American Morning

Ace of Diamonds

Aired June 19, 2003 - 09:07   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: To Iraq now, where U.S. forces continue to come under fire, but they have a major capture to celebrate this week. The ace of diamonds, Saddam Hussein's top aid, General Abid Hamid Mahmud Al Tikriti, was taken into custody on Monday of this week.
Simon Henderson's is the author of "Instant Empire," Saddam Hussein's ambition for Iraq. He is our guest now live in London.

How critical is this pickup, Simon?

SIMON HENDERSON, AUTHOR: I think it is a very important pickup, and in retrospect, it might turn out to be critical. By getting one of the top four, even though it isn't Saddam or his sons themselves, it sends a very telling message to the rest of the senior Baath leadership who are still in hiding or is still on the run, that the Americans are determined to go after them, and frankly, they'll probably get them in the end, so what's the point in holding out?

HEMMER: Ken Pollack was on with us earlier today and I asked him the same question. What does it tell you about the fact that the man was picked up in Tikrit, north of Baghdad.

HENDERSON: Well, it tells me the obvious, which was probably obvious to us but, we didn't really know it. But when we came down to it, the senior members of this regime will retreat at the time of the collapse of the regime to their local areas, which, roughly speak of, is northwestern quadrant of Iraq, out from Baghdad to Tikrit in the north.

HEMMER: What does it is say, Simon, that more than 30 on the list of 55 have now been captured or surrendered, and still no firm evidence right now for weapons of mass destruction? What does that tell you?

HENDERSON: I'm somebody who's less than concerned on this issue. We know he had them. We know he probably got rid of some of them. Even the United Nations knows that.

The questions are, if there are any left, where are they, and if there aren't any left, what happened to them? Where were they destroyed? And where was the paperwork for this? Because, whatever you can say of Saddam's regime, it was a bureaucracy. It did write things down on paper.

And the man, Abid Hamid, who was caught on Monday, the ace of diamonds was a crucial person. It was his desk across which the paperwork flowed.

HEMMER: Now there will be interrogations, we know that. Apparently he's being held in the airport west of Baghdad, the Baghdad International Airport as it is now being known.

HEMMER: Is there incentive for this man to talk?

HENDERSON: He's probably a very tough nut. He used to be apparently a junior soldier in one of Saddam's bodyguard units. He was then plucked probably because he had some ability, was loyal and was related to a tribe which was important to Saddam. He then was made an officer, a brigadier general, when he was initially appointed in this function in 1992 and lieutenant general by the time the regime finally collapsed.

But he is a hardened nut. But if they can make him break and, you know, there are plenty of ways other than physical torture which can encourage people to break, then I think this is good news.

HEMMER: Thanks, Simon. Simon Henderson live there in London.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired June 19, 2003 - 09:07   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: To Iraq now, where U.S. forces continue to come under fire, but they have a major capture to celebrate this week. The ace of diamonds, Saddam Hussein's top aid, General Abid Hamid Mahmud Al Tikriti, was taken into custody on Monday of this week.
Simon Henderson's is the author of "Instant Empire," Saddam Hussein's ambition for Iraq. He is our guest now live in London.

How critical is this pickup, Simon?

SIMON HENDERSON, AUTHOR: I think it is a very important pickup, and in retrospect, it might turn out to be critical. By getting one of the top four, even though it isn't Saddam or his sons themselves, it sends a very telling message to the rest of the senior Baath leadership who are still in hiding or is still on the run, that the Americans are determined to go after them, and frankly, they'll probably get them in the end, so what's the point in holding out?

HEMMER: Ken Pollack was on with us earlier today and I asked him the same question. What does it tell you about the fact that the man was picked up in Tikrit, north of Baghdad.

HENDERSON: Well, it tells me the obvious, which was probably obvious to us but, we didn't really know it. But when we came down to it, the senior members of this regime will retreat at the time of the collapse of the regime to their local areas, which, roughly speak of, is northwestern quadrant of Iraq, out from Baghdad to Tikrit in the north.

HEMMER: What does it is say, Simon, that more than 30 on the list of 55 have now been captured or surrendered, and still no firm evidence right now for weapons of mass destruction? What does that tell you?

HENDERSON: I'm somebody who's less than concerned on this issue. We know he had them. We know he probably got rid of some of them. Even the United Nations knows that.

The questions are, if there are any left, where are they, and if there aren't any left, what happened to them? Where were they destroyed? And where was the paperwork for this? Because, whatever you can say of Saddam's regime, it was a bureaucracy. It did write things down on paper.

And the man, Abid Hamid, who was caught on Monday, the ace of diamonds was a crucial person. It was his desk across which the paperwork flowed.

HEMMER: Now there will be interrogations, we know that. Apparently he's being held in the airport west of Baghdad, the Baghdad International Airport as it is now being known.

HEMMER: Is there incentive for this man to talk?

HENDERSON: He's probably a very tough nut. He used to be apparently a junior soldier in one of Saddam's bodyguard units. He was then plucked probably because he had some ability, was loyal and was related to a tribe which was important to Saddam. He then was made an officer, a brigadier general, when he was initially appointed in this function in 1992 and lieutenant general by the time the regime finally collapsed.

But he is a hardened nut. But if they can make him break and, you know, there are plenty of ways other than physical torture which can encourage people to break, then I think this is good news.

HEMMER: Thanks, Simon. Simon Henderson live there in London.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com