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American Morning

Pivotal Decisions

Aired June 23, 2003 - 08:35   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Daryn, ruling expected as early as today at the U.S. Supreme Court in cases involving affirmative action, in cases involving sodomy. The decisions could become a landmark. The key issue in a pair of affirmative action cases. The admissions policy at the University of Michigan Ann Arbor. In the third case, two men are challenging a 28-year-old Texas law that makes sodomy a crime. How important are the cases?
Jeffrey Toobin, our legal analyst, is here to take us through this.

Good morning, Jeff.

Affirmative action, Michigan -- what's at issue here?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: This is such an important case. And sometimes, I think we hype these things. We sort of build them up. No hype needed here.

Basically, this will determine how basically every university in the country, private or public, conducts its admissions practices. And it's a very simple issue. May the university take race into consideration? Both the law school and the college, which are the two separate lawsuits, consider race, they give advantages to African- American and other minority students, and the white students who say they would have been admitted otherwise have challenged it. Very simple issue. Totally profound

HEMMER: Let's say the court rules against the school, what happens?

TOOBIN: What happens is depending how the opinion was written, but if the university loses, it is very likely that universities simply will not be allowed to consider race as a factor. In the college admissions process, they have a 150 point scale. You can get as much as 20 points additional for being a racial minority. That's what's in front of the court. Very simply, that kind of policy, anything like it, may have to be abolished, and as supporters of this program have said, minority enrollment in this and other universities would plummet.

HEMMER: Take it outside the University of Michigan, you were talking at earlier, companies were looking at this ruling? What do they have to do with it?

TOOBIN: What's been very important to the court, it seems, based on oral argument, is that a lot of big establishment companies, including Microsoft, General Motors, have said, we consider race in promotions, We want a diverse work force, we think it's important in a diverse world, because these companies all receive federal contracts of one kind or another, they will probably be bound by this decision as well.

HEMMER: You mentioned the sodomy law quickly in the state of Texas. What's at stake here?

TOOBIN: Thirteen states have law that ban private consensual sodomy between people of the same sex. It's very rarely prosecuted. But in 1986, the Supreme Court said it's OK to legislate against that. I saw the oral argument. The court seemed very hostile to the law, basically said it's none of the government's business. That's what's up for grabs today.

HEMMER: But why is this such high profile right now if it's not enforced very often, whether it's in Texas or the other 12 states?

TOOBIN: It's because it's the fundamental gay rights decision, basically outlawing all a gay sex behavior. Even though it's not prosecuted, it is illegal in all those states, and a lot of people feel it's simply not the government's business. Other people feel morality is a legitimate...

HEMMER: Think we'll get answers today on these, or not?

TOOBIN: My guess is Wednesday.

HEMMER: Wednesday. All right, we'll mark you down for that.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com






Aired June 23, 2003 - 08:35   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Daryn, ruling expected as early as today at the U.S. Supreme Court in cases involving affirmative action, in cases involving sodomy. The decisions could become a landmark. The key issue in a pair of affirmative action cases. The admissions policy at the University of Michigan Ann Arbor. In the third case, two men are challenging a 28-year-old Texas law that makes sodomy a crime. How important are the cases?
Jeffrey Toobin, our legal analyst, is here to take us through this.

Good morning, Jeff.

Affirmative action, Michigan -- what's at issue here?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: This is such an important case. And sometimes, I think we hype these things. We sort of build them up. No hype needed here.

Basically, this will determine how basically every university in the country, private or public, conducts its admissions practices. And it's a very simple issue. May the university take race into consideration? Both the law school and the college, which are the two separate lawsuits, consider race, they give advantages to African- American and other minority students, and the white students who say they would have been admitted otherwise have challenged it. Very simple issue. Totally profound

HEMMER: Let's say the court rules against the school, what happens?

TOOBIN: What happens is depending how the opinion was written, but if the university loses, it is very likely that universities simply will not be allowed to consider race as a factor. In the college admissions process, they have a 150 point scale. You can get as much as 20 points additional for being a racial minority. That's what's in front of the court. Very simply, that kind of policy, anything like it, may have to be abolished, and as supporters of this program have said, minority enrollment in this and other universities would plummet.

HEMMER: Take it outside the University of Michigan, you were talking at earlier, companies were looking at this ruling? What do they have to do with it?

TOOBIN: What's been very important to the court, it seems, based on oral argument, is that a lot of big establishment companies, including Microsoft, General Motors, have said, we consider race in promotions, We want a diverse work force, we think it's important in a diverse world, because these companies all receive federal contracts of one kind or another, they will probably be bound by this decision as well.

HEMMER: You mentioned the sodomy law quickly in the state of Texas. What's at stake here?

TOOBIN: Thirteen states have law that ban private consensual sodomy between people of the same sex. It's very rarely prosecuted. But in 1986, the Supreme Court said it's OK to legislate against that. I saw the oral argument. The court seemed very hostile to the law, basically said it's none of the government's business. That's what's up for grabs today.

HEMMER: But why is this such high profile right now if it's not enforced very often, whether it's in Texas or the other 12 states?

TOOBIN: It's because it's the fundamental gay rights decision, basically outlawing all a gay sex behavior. Even though it's not prosecuted, it is illegal in all those states, and a lot of people feel it's simply not the government's business. Other people feel morality is a legitimate...

HEMMER: Think we'll get answers today on these, or not?

TOOBIN: My guess is Wednesday.

HEMMER: Wednesday. All right, we'll mark you down for that.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com