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American Morning
Historic Ruling
Aired June 27, 2003 - 09:35 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: The Supreme Court ruling that struck down the anti-sodomy law in Texas reaches far beyond one state.
Joining us now from Washington to help interpret the impact of yesterday's decision, our legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin.
Jeff, good morning.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Hi, Daryn.
KAGAN: Just how big and how surprising was this ruling from the Supreme Court?
TOOBIN: Well, I was in the courtroom when this case was argued, and I -- it was clear that several justices were very uncomfortable with the Texas law, and it was not terribly surprising that the law itself was struck down.
But the breadth of the ruling, the language in the ruling, the impact of the ruling, was certainly surprising to me, and I think to most people. And the implications looked to be quite large.
KAGAN: So where does it go from here? Does it open the door for gay marriage, for gay adoption to be sanctioned in every state across the land?
TOOBIN: Well, I think, as usual with the law, things will proceed step by step, not immediately to gay marriage. Tomorrow, if you filed a lawsuit and said, I have the constitutional right to get married as a gay person, I think almost certainly you would lose.
I think the first steps will be in things like custody. One of the reasons that gay people are sometimes denied custody of children is that courts say, well, you're violating the law, you're committing homosexual sodomy. That, obviously, is no longer a crime in any state in the Union as a result of this ruling.
So I think there will be gains for gay people in custody, perhaps in adoption.
Marriage is different, because marriage has always been regulated by the state -- polygamy, bigamy. I don't think any of that is really going to change, but some of the areas around the margins probably will.
KAGAN: It seems that Justice Kennedy, when he was writing for the majority, basically says what two consenting adults do behind closed doors in the privacy of their home is their own business. So many conservatives say, if you take that kind of logic a step further, that means prostitution can be OK, incest, bigamy. Do you see that kind of concern?
TOOBIN: Well, I think the conservatives are not entirely wrong when they are worried about the implications. As I say, I don't think marriage-related laws will change very quickly. I don't think anything related to children will change. But the laws about fornication, which is illegal, two unmarried people having sex, I think those would no longer be enforced. There are obscenity laws, I think, may yet -- may have less chance of being enforced now.
You know, it is -- this opinion was a ringing, ringing endorsement of the whole idea of privacy when it comes to adults and sexuality. And I think a lot of those laws that relate to adult consensual sexuality are likely to change as a result of this.
KAGAN: And just finally, Jeff, it was the final day of the court session. Nobody quit, no justices stepped down. Are we still going to keep a watch on that?
TOOBIN: Well, you know, there's no law that says the Supreme Court justice has to quit at the end of the term. They can quit whenever they want to. It's just become the custom in the last couple of decades. But it really does look now that no retirement until next June at the earliest. If there is a retirement next June, that's likely to get caught up in the presidential campaign. So it's possible George Bush could go his entire first term without appointing a Supreme Court justice.
KAGAN: We will be tracking it. Jeffrey Toobin, joining us from D.C., appreciate it. Thanks.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired June 27, 2003 - 09:35 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: The Supreme Court ruling that struck down the anti-sodomy law in Texas reaches far beyond one state.
Joining us now from Washington to help interpret the impact of yesterday's decision, our legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin.
Jeff, good morning.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Hi, Daryn.
KAGAN: Just how big and how surprising was this ruling from the Supreme Court?
TOOBIN: Well, I was in the courtroom when this case was argued, and I -- it was clear that several justices were very uncomfortable with the Texas law, and it was not terribly surprising that the law itself was struck down.
But the breadth of the ruling, the language in the ruling, the impact of the ruling, was certainly surprising to me, and I think to most people. And the implications looked to be quite large.
KAGAN: So where does it go from here? Does it open the door for gay marriage, for gay adoption to be sanctioned in every state across the land?
TOOBIN: Well, I think, as usual with the law, things will proceed step by step, not immediately to gay marriage. Tomorrow, if you filed a lawsuit and said, I have the constitutional right to get married as a gay person, I think almost certainly you would lose.
I think the first steps will be in things like custody. One of the reasons that gay people are sometimes denied custody of children is that courts say, well, you're violating the law, you're committing homosexual sodomy. That, obviously, is no longer a crime in any state in the Union as a result of this ruling.
So I think there will be gains for gay people in custody, perhaps in adoption.
Marriage is different, because marriage has always been regulated by the state -- polygamy, bigamy. I don't think any of that is really going to change, but some of the areas around the margins probably will.
KAGAN: It seems that Justice Kennedy, when he was writing for the majority, basically says what two consenting adults do behind closed doors in the privacy of their home is their own business. So many conservatives say, if you take that kind of logic a step further, that means prostitution can be OK, incest, bigamy. Do you see that kind of concern?
TOOBIN: Well, I think the conservatives are not entirely wrong when they are worried about the implications. As I say, I don't think marriage-related laws will change very quickly. I don't think anything related to children will change. But the laws about fornication, which is illegal, two unmarried people having sex, I think those would no longer be enforced. There are obscenity laws, I think, may yet -- may have less chance of being enforced now.
You know, it is -- this opinion was a ringing, ringing endorsement of the whole idea of privacy when it comes to adults and sexuality. And I think a lot of those laws that relate to adult consensual sexuality are likely to change as a result of this.
KAGAN: And just finally, Jeff, it was the final day of the court session. Nobody quit, no justices stepped down. Are we still going to keep a watch on that?
TOOBIN: Well, you know, there's no law that says the Supreme Court justice has to quit at the end of the term. They can quit whenever they want to. It's just become the custom in the last couple of decades. But it really does look now that no retirement until next June at the earliest. If there is a retirement next June, that's likely to get caught up in the presidential campaign. So it's possible George Bush could go his entire first term without appointing a Supreme Court justice.
KAGAN: We will be tracking it. Jeffrey Toobin, joining us from D.C., appreciate it. Thanks.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
