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American Morning
Powell Says Violence Across Iraq Doesn't Rise to Level of Organized Insurgency
Aired June 30, 2003 - 08:15 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RENAY SAN MIGUEL, CNN ANCHOR: Secretary of State Colin Powell says the violence across Iraq is dangerous, but does not rise to the level of organized insurgency. He spoke to us earlier this morning about Operation Sidewinder, now in its second day.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: We are now fighting back, making sure that these individuals do not get traction. And so Operation Sidewinder is an effort to go after these individuals in cities and towns across Iraq.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SAN MIGUEL: We get more on the operation now from Baghdad and our bureau chief there, Jane Arraf -- Jane.
JANE ARRAF, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Renay, a lot of those cities and towns that they're going after these people are actually going up to Saddam's hometown of Tikrit and even further north. In fact, all the way up to the Syrian border -- the Iranian border, as well.
Now, U.S. military officials describe that as the center, really, of continued opposition to U.S. troops. And theyve conducted the biggest operation since the end of the war to try to crack down on them. It is called Operation Desert Sidewinder, as we know. And that's a desert snake, apparently.
They say they are cracking down on Baath Party loyalists, on activists, on former paramilitary members and, according to U.S. officials, they have captured a relatively senior Baath Party leader in those raids, along with dozens of other people.
Now, this is open-ended. They say they will continue this operation that centers around the 4th Infantry Division, with heavy armor backed by air support until they feel they're confident that these pockets of opposition, as they call them, continue to be wiped out and there are no more ongoing attacks on U.S. and British soldiers -- Renay.
SAN MIGUEL: Jane Arraf live in Baghdad.
Thanks so much.
And so how can the U.S. react to the relentless attacks on its soldiers and the sabotage of pipelines there?
Joining us this morning is our military analyst, Retired General David Grange.
General, good to talk to you again.
Thanks for coming in this morning.
BRIG. GEN. DAVID GRANGE, U.S. ARMY (RET.): Good talking to you, Renay.
SAN MIGUEL: So, as Jane just mentioned, it is the 4th Infantry Division. It's been a while since you and I chatted about what particular armor and forces we are talking about in these divisions, so refresh our memory, if you would, as to, you know, what kind of helicopters, what kind of armored personnel carriers and the like are in the Fourth?
GRANGE: Well, the 4th Infantry Division is a heavy mechanized division, Abrams tanks, Bradley armed personnel carriers, Apache helicopters, Blackhawk helicopters. But it's a heavy infantry force, which means that it has dismounted infantry to work the streets, to walk through the neighborhoods. But they're not as robust in numbers of troops as, let's say, the 101st Airborne Division is.
SAN MIGUEL: But the reason I ask, I guess, is being able to take on a guerrilla type of attack force, as these insurgents have become, it's got the goods to be able to take care of that?
GRANGE: It does. But no matter what Army division or Marine division you're talking about, it really boils down to are those soldiers or Marines trained to do those type of activities? Because once a troop gets on the ground, they're basically infantrymen. And they need to have that kind of training, that kind of street sense, to operate in this environment to protect themselves, protect the civilians and accomplish their mission.
SAN MIGUEL: I would think now more than ever the intelligence that you're getting from Iraqis that have been captured, such as the 60 that were captured up in Mosul, in northern Iraq, yesterday, and also the cooperation that you get from some of the anti-Saddam forces in Iraq, would be more than -- more crucial than ever. The intelligence now takes precedence here?
GRANGE: The intelligence takes precedence. It's the number one priority. Without good intelligence, the mission would be hard to accomplish. And that's right. The street intelligence they get, the human intelligence they get is probably the most important. And some of the people in the neighborhoods support these insurgents, of which many are foreign or former Baath Party officials. Some do not support them.
So you have to make sure that you provide the population, their basic needs and some future, some hope for the future so they do support the coalition forces. If not, they'll support the insurgents. SAN MIGUEL: I'm curious as to what your thoughts are on the statement from the civilian administrator in Iraq, L. Paul Bremmer, yesterday, "The U.S. has to capture or kill Saddam to end these attacks."
GRANGE: Because a lot of the people still fear Saddam and his hierarchy. They believe that unless there's proof that he is dead or captured that, in fact, he could come back and emerge again. And there's a lot of propaganda being spread by these insurgents that he will come back and, you know, too bad for those that helped the Americans.
So, yes, I think Paul Bremmer is correct, that they have to show that he is out for good, that he cannot come back and that their only hope is the coalition forces providing a democratic governance.
SAN MIGUEL: Which leads to my next question. If you think that it is actually Saddam Hussein himself calling the shots, or, as we have heard, that, you know, he left the plan in place in the event that he would be kicked out of Baghdad, in the likely event that he would -- his regime would fail -- and that these attacks were planned a long time ago?
GRANGE: There may be some of this coming from Saddam if he's alive, or his sons or some of his key leadership, other key leadership. But I think part of this is also some foreign influence. For instance, for the Americans to be successful and the British to be successful in this part of the world is not advantageous to many of the neighboring states. And so -- or movements, like al Qaeda and others. So you have a lot of foreign fighters in there because they want to stop the Americans. I think you have some countries that want to say we told you so, U.S., you shouldn't have done this to begin with.
So there's a lot of influence besides possibly Hussein.
SAN MIGUEL: And then finally, six oil pipelines in Iraq attacked over the last two weeks. The difficulty in protecting these open, exposed pieces of infrastructure like pipelines.
GRANGE: Very tough. You can, they can be attacked almost anywhere. In this environment, the desert environment, you cover them quite often with helicopters because it's a desert environment. But then they go through some built up areas and it's a lot easier, probably, than protecting them in Colombia in the jungles. But they are a vulnerable target and for guerrilla tactics, this is a prime target.
SAN MIGUEL: Military analyst, Retired General David Grange, joining us from Chicago.
Good to talk to you again.
Thanks for being with us.
GRANGE: Good seeing you. TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Organized Insurgency>
Aired June 30, 2003 - 08:15 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RENAY SAN MIGUEL, CNN ANCHOR: Secretary of State Colin Powell says the violence across Iraq is dangerous, but does not rise to the level of organized insurgency. He spoke to us earlier this morning about Operation Sidewinder, now in its second day.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: We are now fighting back, making sure that these individuals do not get traction. And so Operation Sidewinder is an effort to go after these individuals in cities and towns across Iraq.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SAN MIGUEL: We get more on the operation now from Baghdad and our bureau chief there, Jane Arraf -- Jane.
JANE ARRAF, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Renay, a lot of those cities and towns that they're going after these people are actually going up to Saddam's hometown of Tikrit and even further north. In fact, all the way up to the Syrian border -- the Iranian border, as well.
Now, U.S. military officials describe that as the center, really, of continued opposition to U.S. troops. And theyve conducted the biggest operation since the end of the war to try to crack down on them. It is called Operation Desert Sidewinder, as we know. And that's a desert snake, apparently.
They say they are cracking down on Baath Party loyalists, on activists, on former paramilitary members and, according to U.S. officials, they have captured a relatively senior Baath Party leader in those raids, along with dozens of other people.
Now, this is open-ended. They say they will continue this operation that centers around the 4th Infantry Division, with heavy armor backed by air support until they feel they're confident that these pockets of opposition, as they call them, continue to be wiped out and there are no more ongoing attacks on U.S. and British soldiers -- Renay.
SAN MIGUEL: Jane Arraf live in Baghdad.
Thanks so much.
And so how can the U.S. react to the relentless attacks on its soldiers and the sabotage of pipelines there?
Joining us this morning is our military analyst, Retired General David Grange.
General, good to talk to you again.
Thanks for coming in this morning.
BRIG. GEN. DAVID GRANGE, U.S. ARMY (RET.): Good talking to you, Renay.
SAN MIGUEL: So, as Jane just mentioned, it is the 4th Infantry Division. It's been a while since you and I chatted about what particular armor and forces we are talking about in these divisions, so refresh our memory, if you would, as to, you know, what kind of helicopters, what kind of armored personnel carriers and the like are in the Fourth?
GRANGE: Well, the 4th Infantry Division is a heavy mechanized division, Abrams tanks, Bradley armed personnel carriers, Apache helicopters, Blackhawk helicopters. But it's a heavy infantry force, which means that it has dismounted infantry to work the streets, to walk through the neighborhoods. But they're not as robust in numbers of troops as, let's say, the 101st Airborne Division is.
SAN MIGUEL: But the reason I ask, I guess, is being able to take on a guerrilla type of attack force, as these insurgents have become, it's got the goods to be able to take care of that?
GRANGE: It does. But no matter what Army division or Marine division you're talking about, it really boils down to are those soldiers or Marines trained to do those type of activities? Because once a troop gets on the ground, they're basically infantrymen. And they need to have that kind of training, that kind of street sense, to operate in this environment to protect themselves, protect the civilians and accomplish their mission.
SAN MIGUEL: I would think now more than ever the intelligence that you're getting from Iraqis that have been captured, such as the 60 that were captured up in Mosul, in northern Iraq, yesterday, and also the cooperation that you get from some of the anti-Saddam forces in Iraq, would be more than -- more crucial than ever. The intelligence now takes precedence here?
GRANGE: The intelligence takes precedence. It's the number one priority. Without good intelligence, the mission would be hard to accomplish. And that's right. The street intelligence they get, the human intelligence they get is probably the most important. And some of the people in the neighborhoods support these insurgents, of which many are foreign or former Baath Party officials. Some do not support them.
So you have to make sure that you provide the population, their basic needs and some future, some hope for the future so they do support the coalition forces. If not, they'll support the insurgents. SAN MIGUEL: I'm curious as to what your thoughts are on the statement from the civilian administrator in Iraq, L. Paul Bremmer, yesterday, "The U.S. has to capture or kill Saddam to end these attacks."
GRANGE: Because a lot of the people still fear Saddam and his hierarchy. They believe that unless there's proof that he is dead or captured that, in fact, he could come back and emerge again. And there's a lot of propaganda being spread by these insurgents that he will come back and, you know, too bad for those that helped the Americans.
So, yes, I think Paul Bremmer is correct, that they have to show that he is out for good, that he cannot come back and that their only hope is the coalition forces providing a democratic governance.
SAN MIGUEL: Which leads to my next question. If you think that it is actually Saddam Hussein himself calling the shots, or, as we have heard, that, you know, he left the plan in place in the event that he would be kicked out of Baghdad, in the likely event that he would -- his regime would fail -- and that these attacks were planned a long time ago?
GRANGE: There may be some of this coming from Saddam if he's alive, or his sons or some of his key leadership, other key leadership. But I think part of this is also some foreign influence. For instance, for the Americans to be successful and the British to be successful in this part of the world is not advantageous to many of the neighboring states. And so -- or movements, like al Qaeda and others. So you have a lot of foreign fighters in there because they want to stop the Americans. I think you have some countries that want to say we told you so, U.S., you shouldn't have done this to begin with.
So there's a lot of influence besides possibly Hussein.
SAN MIGUEL: And then finally, six oil pipelines in Iraq attacked over the last two weeks. The difficulty in protecting these open, exposed pieces of infrastructure like pipelines.
GRANGE: Very tough. You can, they can be attacked almost anywhere. In this environment, the desert environment, you cover them quite often with helicopters because it's a desert environment. But then they go through some built up areas and it's a lot easier, probably, than protecting them in Colombia in the jungles. But they are a vulnerable target and for guerrilla tactics, this is a prime target.
SAN MIGUEL: Military analyst, Retired General David Grange, joining us from Chicago.
Good to talk to you again.
Thanks for being with us.
GRANGE: Good seeing you. TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Organized Insurgency>
