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American Morning

No Decision From Bush on Whether to Send Troops to Liberia

Aired July 04, 2003 - 08:07   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: The first step in bringing order to Liberia, President Bush says, is getting its leader to leave. And according to a senior Liberian government source, the U.S. has given Charles Taylor an ultimatum to do just that. No decision from Mr. Bush yet on whether to send troops, though.
John King is at the White House now with the very latest on all of this -- good morning to you, John.

JOHN KING, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Heidi.

And as the president ponders a final decision and the composition of any U.S.-led peacekeeping force in Liberia, he will be in the presence of U.S. military personnel on this Independence Day. The president is traveling out to Dayton, Ohio, Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, to say thank you to troops out there.

He is nearing a decision on a peacekeeping force in Liberia. The president sat down with our CNN international colleague, Tumi Makgabo, yesterday to discuss his upcoming trip to Africa and he explained that one thing he is doing as he puts together this peacekeeping force is consulting other West African nations that neighbor Liberia.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're talking to a heck of a lots of countries right now to determine whether or not, you know, what the nature of a peacekeeping force might look like. Now, I'm the kind of person that likes to know all the facts before I make a decision. And we've got a special, you know, ties to Liberia. There's historical ties to the United States. That's why we are involved in this issue. And I'm going to look at all the options to determine how best to bring peace and stability.

But one thing has to happen, that's Mr. Taylor needs to leave.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Now, U.S. officials won't make a direct link between President Taylor leaving and U.S. troops going in. But they do say it has been made crystal clear to the Liberian leader that Mr. Bush, his West African neighbors, the United Nations and others believe Mr. Taylor must leave the country and must leave the country soon.

At that point, if that happens, the United Nations would help the West African nations with a transitional government. There would be a cease-fire agreement and, we are told, the president is prepared as early as this weekend to announce he would send in 500 to 1,000, perhaps a few more, U.S. troops to lead an international peacekeeping force in West African -- Heidi.

COLLINS: Senior White House Correspondent John King this morning.

Thanks so much, John.

KING: Thank you.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Journalist and best selling author Sebastian Junger just returned from Monrovia, Liberia, where he was on assignment for "Vanity Fair." He joins us now. You, of course, probably remember him at the very least for "The Perfect Storm," the movie, the book, the sensation.

Good to have you with us, Sebastian.

SEBASTIAN JUNGER, CONTRIBUTING EDITOR, "VANITY FAIR": Thank you.

O'BRIEN: You just got back. Give us a sense, just paint a picture for us of what Monrovia is like right now.

JUNGER: I saw a city in complete anarchy. The rebels are right on the edge of town, although they pulled back recently. But that's the least of it. The government forces are completely lawless, completely out of control. And when fighting breaks out, they use that as an opportunity to actually loot the neighborhoods that civilians have fled because of the shooting.

O'BRIEN: So let's be clear about this, you're talking about, at least ostensibly, the forces under the control of Taylor.

JUNGER: Right.

O'BRIEN: We're not talking about the rebels here?

JUNGER: No.

O'BRIEN: So when the president and others say that the key to this is to get Taylor out, it may not be as simple as that.

JUNGER: Well, it's an interesting country because the people there think of themselves as Americans. They see themselves more like Puerto Rico or something. I saw Taylor's fighters wearing the American flag. And I think if we went in there militarily, I honestly can't imagine anyone firing a shot. They love Americans.

It's not an Iraq. It's not an Afghanistan. That said, Taylor does not completely control his forces. He set it up that way on purpose. And to ask him to step down before we go in, that would thrill him. He'd say fine, I won't step down and you guys stay out and everything's fine. That's not going to work.

O'BRIEN: So, will he step down? Is he the kind of person that will accede to that kind of pressure? JUNGER: He has said he will step down eventually. He wants to see out his term. I think maybe what the U.S. is doing now is playing on the street sentiment that people perceive Taylor as now prolonging the war, prolonging their suffering because he won't step down.

Possibly what's happening now with the administration is suggesting we won't come in with peacekeepers unless Taylor steps down, that might provoke enough popular sentiment that they just kick him out. But that's a real gamble.

O'BRIEN: All right, let's talk about what's going on in the crossfire of all this. Caught between the rebels and the government troops that may or may not be listening to the government are every day people in Monrovia in particular. What is life like for them?

JUNGER: It's hell. Life is hell for civilians in Monrovia. I mean there's the rebels right outside of town. You have government forces that are -- basically they spend their day looting. They terrorize the civilians and now there's hundreds of thousands of displaced people who are just squatting in the streets. They had to flee the fighting. They have nowhere to go. They have no rice, no water, I mean nothing. And they're starting to die of disease. And that's going to kill many more people than the bullets.

O'BRIEN: All right, when people start talking about the prospect of U.S. troops in this situation, what immediately comes to mind is Somalia. Is this a Somalia type of situation? You sort of alluded to the fact that it might be fundamentally different.

JUNGER: I, you know, I didn't, I never worked in Somalia. I don't think it's, I don't think it's similar. There's a tremendous affection for Americans there. They see themselves as a sort of stepchild of America and the anger that I had directed towards me was mainly because I'm American and people would say you see us suffering, how can you not do something?

And I think if American troops came in, I really can't imagine these kids, these fighters even thinking about fighting them. They're kids in pickup trucks. They don't even know how to make sandbag positions. They're not going to do it. They love America. It's hard to emphasize that enough.

O'BRIEN: So, in a word, send in the U.S. troops would be your position?

JUNGER: In a word, I think we absolutely have to. People are dying by the thousands there and we could stop it, I think we could stop it in a week.

O'BRIEN: Sebastian Younger, who just got back from Liberia, Monrovia. He's working on a big piece for "Vanity Fair." We're going to be looking for that and who knows what else from you?

JUNGER: Yes.

O'BRIEN: Another book, which you don't tell me about. But we'll find out about that eventually.

Thanks very much for being with us on this holiday on AMERICAN MORNING.

JUNGER: Thank you.

O'BRIEN: Cnn.com's world section has an interactive gallery we want to tell you about on the history of the U.S. involvement in Liberia. It has maps, facts on the country's history and more, and there's also a profile there of the Liberian president, Charles Taylor. We invite you to check that out. Cnn.com is the place.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com





Liberia>


Aired July 4, 2003 - 08:07   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: The first step in bringing order to Liberia, President Bush says, is getting its leader to leave. And according to a senior Liberian government source, the U.S. has given Charles Taylor an ultimatum to do just that. No decision from Mr. Bush yet on whether to send troops, though.
John King is at the White House now with the very latest on all of this -- good morning to you, John.

JOHN KING, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Heidi.

And as the president ponders a final decision and the composition of any U.S.-led peacekeeping force in Liberia, he will be in the presence of U.S. military personnel on this Independence Day. The president is traveling out to Dayton, Ohio, Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, to say thank you to troops out there.

He is nearing a decision on a peacekeeping force in Liberia. The president sat down with our CNN international colleague, Tumi Makgabo, yesterday to discuss his upcoming trip to Africa and he explained that one thing he is doing as he puts together this peacekeeping force is consulting other West African nations that neighbor Liberia.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're talking to a heck of a lots of countries right now to determine whether or not, you know, what the nature of a peacekeeping force might look like. Now, I'm the kind of person that likes to know all the facts before I make a decision. And we've got a special, you know, ties to Liberia. There's historical ties to the United States. That's why we are involved in this issue. And I'm going to look at all the options to determine how best to bring peace and stability.

But one thing has to happen, that's Mr. Taylor needs to leave.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Now, U.S. officials won't make a direct link between President Taylor leaving and U.S. troops going in. But they do say it has been made crystal clear to the Liberian leader that Mr. Bush, his West African neighbors, the United Nations and others believe Mr. Taylor must leave the country and must leave the country soon.

At that point, if that happens, the United Nations would help the West African nations with a transitional government. There would be a cease-fire agreement and, we are told, the president is prepared as early as this weekend to announce he would send in 500 to 1,000, perhaps a few more, U.S. troops to lead an international peacekeeping force in West African -- Heidi.

COLLINS: Senior White House Correspondent John King this morning.

Thanks so much, John.

KING: Thank you.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Journalist and best selling author Sebastian Junger just returned from Monrovia, Liberia, where he was on assignment for "Vanity Fair." He joins us now. You, of course, probably remember him at the very least for "The Perfect Storm," the movie, the book, the sensation.

Good to have you with us, Sebastian.

SEBASTIAN JUNGER, CONTRIBUTING EDITOR, "VANITY FAIR": Thank you.

O'BRIEN: You just got back. Give us a sense, just paint a picture for us of what Monrovia is like right now.

JUNGER: I saw a city in complete anarchy. The rebels are right on the edge of town, although they pulled back recently. But that's the least of it. The government forces are completely lawless, completely out of control. And when fighting breaks out, they use that as an opportunity to actually loot the neighborhoods that civilians have fled because of the shooting.

O'BRIEN: So let's be clear about this, you're talking about, at least ostensibly, the forces under the control of Taylor.

JUNGER: Right.

O'BRIEN: We're not talking about the rebels here?

JUNGER: No.

O'BRIEN: So when the president and others say that the key to this is to get Taylor out, it may not be as simple as that.

JUNGER: Well, it's an interesting country because the people there think of themselves as Americans. They see themselves more like Puerto Rico or something. I saw Taylor's fighters wearing the American flag. And I think if we went in there militarily, I honestly can't imagine anyone firing a shot. They love Americans.

It's not an Iraq. It's not an Afghanistan. That said, Taylor does not completely control his forces. He set it up that way on purpose. And to ask him to step down before we go in, that would thrill him. He'd say fine, I won't step down and you guys stay out and everything's fine. That's not going to work.

O'BRIEN: So, will he step down? Is he the kind of person that will accede to that kind of pressure? JUNGER: He has said he will step down eventually. He wants to see out his term. I think maybe what the U.S. is doing now is playing on the street sentiment that people perceive Taylor as now prolonging the war, prolonging their suffering because he won't step down.

Possibly what's happening now with the administration is suggesting we won't come in with peacekeepers unless Taylor steps down, that might provoke enough popular sentiment that they just kick him out. But that's a real gamble.

O'BRIEN: All right, let's talk about what's going on in the crossfire of all this. Caught between the rebels and the government troops that may or may not be listening to the government are every day people in Monrovia in particular. What is life like for them?

JUNGER: It's hell. Life is hell for civilians in Monrovia. I mean there's the rebels right outside of town. You have government forces that are -- basically they spend their day looting. They terrorize the civilians and now there's hundreds of thousands of displaced people who are just squatting in the streets. They had to flee the fighting. They have nowhere to go. They have no rice, no water, I mean nothing. And they're starting to die of disease. And that's going to kill many more people than the bullets.

O'BRIEN: All right, when people start talking about the prospect of U.S. troops in this situation, what immediately comes to mind is Somalia. Is this a Somalia type of situation? You sort of alluded to the fact that it might be fundamentally different.

JUNGER: I, you know, I didn't, I never worked in Somalia. I don't think it's, I don't think it's similar. There's a tremendous affection for Americans there. They see themselves as a sort of stepchild of America and the anger that I had directed towards me was mainly because I'm American and people would say you see us suffering, how can you not do something?

And I think if American troops came in, I really can't imagine these kids, these fighters even thinking about fighting them. They're kids in pickup trucks. They don't even know how to make sandbag positions. They're not going to do it. They love America. It's hard to emphasize that enough.

O'BRIEN: So, in a word, send in the U.S. troops would be your position?

JUNGER: In a word, I think we absolutely have to. People are dying by the thousands there and we could stop it, I think we could stop it in a week.

O'BRIEN: Sebastian Younger, who just got back from Liberia, Monrovia. He's working on a big piece for "Vanity Fair." We're going to be looking for that and who knows what else from you?

JUNGER: Yes.

O'BRIEN: Another book, which you don't tell me about. But we'll find out about that eventually.

Thanks very much for being with us on this holiday on AMERICAN MORNING.

JUNGER: Thank you.

O'BRIEN: Cnn.com's world section has an interactive gallery we want to tell you about on the history of the U.S. involvement in Liberia. It has maps, facts on the country's history and more, and there's also a profile there of the Liberian president, Charles Taylor. We invite you to check that out. Cnn.com is the place.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com





Liberia>