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American Morning

Teens' Murder Plot?

Aired July 08, 2003 - 09:35   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: According to classmates, he did not exhibit any warning signs. But a closer look at the 18-year-old's past reveals it was not exactly an easy childhood. Child psychologist Dr. Michael Thompson is the coauthor of "Raising Cain: Protecting the Emotional Lives of Boys," and he joins us this morning from Boston.
Dr. Thompson, good morning. Thanks for joining us.

DR. MICHAEL THOMPSON, CHILD PSYCHOLOGIST: Hi, Soledad. Good morning.

O'BRIEN: Is it unusual in cases like this for a parent to have essentially no clue as to what their child is up to?

THOMPSON: An overwhelmed single parent -- and I assume that this father was carrying the whole load here, because his wife had died -- may not know exactly what his son is thinking. Boys aren't very communicative at the ages of 16, 17 and 18.

O'BRIEN: He also spoke about his younger brother who had had something like 13 surgeries for a cleft palate. The younger boy apparently humiliated, teased by classmates in school. Should this have been a red flag for anyone, maybe not only his father, but also school administrators?

THOMPSON: Absolutely. A Secret Service report found that the one thing that linked all of the school shootings that we've had over the past five years has been excessive bullying and teasing.

Now in this case, Matthew himself may not have been teased, but he may have felt very angry on behalf of his brother. I wouldn't blame him.

O'BRIEN: Forgive me for interrupting, but a question about the younger men who were in the older teen's life. It seems like he was clearly at some point put in the position of defending his younger brother. So it's interesting that we see him now linked to a 14-year- old and 15-year-old, his coconspirators, if you believe what the prosecutors are alleging.

THOMPSON: If he was a socially isolated boy in school and felt he had no power and was sort of pushed to the margins, by hanging out with two younger boys, he may have felt like a leader, they may have looked up to him and respected him, and that's what every teenager wants, is to feel some sense of power in the world, and especially if he's had a hard life and is depressed. Two younger boys look up to you and you spin this fantasy of power, that could be exciting for all of them. The problem here was that they actually got guns and went out into the street and tried to stop a car. That's when they moved from fantasy to behavior.

O'BRIEN: You talked about depression. But I would have to imagine and boys, certainly from the ages that you write about, 14, 15, 16 18, a little bit older, even, being a loner is not sort of an unusual description for a young man, is it?

THOMPSON: It is an unusual description, actually. Kids are very social. And if you get a socially withdrawn boy, a boy who is rejected and nobody pays much attention to him at school, they just give him the back of the hand, and he spends day after day that way, that's an incredibly lonely life.

The kids who are rejected at school are very much at risk psychologically, and they can sink into a depression, and because nobody is aware of it, and nobody knows him, nobody asks, are you sad? Are you hurting? Hidden depression in boys is a real problem.

O'BRIEN: There are theories, and I think that this often happens in cases like this, where people point to the influence of movies and classmates, I guess, say Matthew Lovett apparently was trying to dress like characters in "The Matrix." Tell me what separates young men who admire and want to dress like their favorite characters from a movie and others who cross the line and go into violent acts?

THOMPSON: As you -- you're right. Almost all boys in the United States watch action/adventure movies and movies where they are killing, and it doesn't take them out to kill. You have to have a background of abuse, or loneliness or clinical depression. One of the boys at Columbine did have a serious depression that had been treated, but apparently not enough.

You know, boys express sadness often by anger and fantasies of power and revenge, and instead of doing what girls do, which is to say, I'm sad, I need to talk to somebody. They say, I hate school, I hate everybody. It doesn't often take these forms. This is extremely rare. But the -- that a boy would want revenge on a school where he had been sidelined or marginalized completely is understandable, sad, tragic, but understandable to me.

O'BRIEN: Very scary stuff. Dr. Michael Thompson, thank you for joining us this morning. We certainly appreciate your time.

THOMPSON: Thanks for having me.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired July 8, 2003 - 09:35   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: According to classmates, he did not exhibit any warning signs. But a closer look at the 18-year-old's past reveals it was not exactly an easy childhood. Child psychologist Dr. Michael Thompson is the coauthor of "Raising Cain: Protecting the Emotional Lives of Boys," and he joins us this morning from Boston.
Dr. Thompson, good morning. Thanks for joining us.

DR. MICHAEL THOMPSON, CHILD PSYCHOLOGIST: Hi, Soledad. Good morning.

O'BRIEN: Is it unusual in cases like this for a parent to have essentially no clue as to what their child is up to?

THOMPSON: An overwhelmed single parent -- and I assume that this father was carrying the whole load here, because his wife had died -- may not know exactly what his son is thinking. Boys aren't very communicative at the ages of 16, 17 and 18.

O'BRIEN: He also spoke about his younger brother who had had something like 13 surgeries for a cleft palate. The younger boy apparently humiliated, teased by classmates in school. Should this have been a red flag for anyone, maybe not only his father, but also school administrators?

THOMPSON: Absolutely. A Secret Service report found that the one thing that linked all of the school shootings that we've had over the past five years has been excessive bullying and teasing.

Now in this case, Matthew himself may not have been teased, but he may have felt very angry on behalf of his brother. I wouldn't blame him.

O'BRIEN: Forgive me for interrupting, but a question about the younger men who were in the older teen's life. It seems like he was clearly at some point put in the position of defending his younger brother. So it's interesting that we see him now linked to a 14-year- old and 15-year-old, his coconspirators, if you believe what the prosecutors are alleging.

THOMPSON: If he was a socially isolated boy in school and felt he had no power and was sort of pushed to the margins, by hanging out with two younger boys, he may have felt like a leader, they may have looked up to him and respected him, and that's what every teenager wants, is to feel some sense of power in the world, and especially if he's had a hard life and is depressed. Two younger boys look up to you and you spin this fantasy of power, that could be exciting for all of them. The problem here was that they actually got guns and went out into the street and tried to stop a car. That's when they moved from fantasy to behavior.

O'BRIEN: You talked about depression. But I would have to imagine and boys, certainly from the ages that you write about, 14, 15, 16 18, a little bit older, even, being a loner is not sort of an unusual description for a young man, is it?

THOMPSON: It is an unusual description, actually. Kids are very social. And if you get a socially withdrawn boy, a boy who is rejected and nobody pays much attention to him at school, they just give him the back of the hand, and he spends day after day that way, that's an incredibly lonely life.

The kids who are rejected at school are very much at risk psychologically, and they can sink into a depression, and because nobody is aware of it, and nobody knows him, nobody asks, are you sad? Are you hurting? Hidden depression in boys is a real problem.

O'BRIEN: There are theories, and I think that this often happens in cases like this, where people point to the influence of movies and classmates, I guess, say Matthew Lovett apparently was trying to dress like characters in "The Matrix." Tell me what separates young men who admire and want to dress like their favorite characters from a movie and others who cross the line and go into violent acts?

THOMPSON: As you -- you're right. Almost all boys in the United States watch action/adventure movies and movies where they are killing, and it doesn't take them out to kill. You have to have a background of abuse, or loneliness or clinical depression. One of the boys at Columbine did have a serious depression that had been treated, but apparently not enough.

You know, boys express sadness often by anger and fantasies of power and revenge, and instead of doing what girls do, which is to say, I'm sad, I need to talk to somebody. They say, I hate school, I hate everybody. It doesn't often take these forms. This is extremely rare. But the -- that a boy would want revenge on a school where he had been sidelined or marginalized completely is understandable, sad, tragic, but understandable to me.

O'BRIEN: Very scary stuff. Dr. Michael Thompson, thank you for joining us this morning. We certainly appreciate your time.

THOMPSON: Thanks for having me.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com