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American Morning

Interview with Former National Security Advisor Samuel Berger

Aired July 10, 2003 - 07:06   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: New evidence is coming out about what the White House knew before the president's State of the Union speech in which he argued for war against Iraq. In January, President Bush quoted British intelligence as saying that Iraq had tried to buy nuclear material from Niger, but CNN has learned that drafts of the speech quoted American intelligence until officials had it removed because they lacked confidence in the information.
The president on tour in Africa said he has no doubts about his decision to go to war.

Former National Security Advisor Samuel Berger is in CNN's Washington bureau for us this morning.

Mr. Berger, good morning. Thanks for joining us.

SAMUEL BERGER, FORMER NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR: Good morning, Soledad.

O'BRIEN: As you well know, Ambassador Joe Wilson was asked to explore the report of Nigeria selling uranium to Iraq. He found no evidence, and still the information made it into the president's State of the Union address. Who do you think eventually takes the blame for this? Is it the intelligence agencies or is it the president himself?

BERGER: Well, I have no idea how it wound up in the speech. It was obviously a serious screw up, and we have to sort this out, just as we have to sort out where the weapons of mass destruction, what's happened to them in Iraq. I do think the larger issue now is, however, how we move forward to, in a very difficult situation, to create a stable, peaceful Iraq and achieve our mission there.

O'BRIEN: I want to talk about more on that in just a moment for one second. You call it a serious screw up. At the same time, Donald Rumsfeld has essentially dismissed the matter, calling it just a scrap in the bigger picture. Do you think that that's true at all?

BERGER: Well, the most important speech the president gives all year is the State of the Union. If there is something in the State of the Union on the central issue of the day, of the speech that is incorrect, that's a serious problem, and we ought to sort that out and find out what happened.

O'BRIEN: Let's talk a little bit Iraq today. Do you think the Bush administration greatly underestimated just how difficult it would be to restore stability in Iraq? BERGER: I think we had a brilliant war plan, executed magnificently by our troops. I do think we underestimated -- notwithstanding the fact that many people were talking about how difficult the peace would be I think we underestimated what it would take. It's going to be a long and difficult road now, and I think we're going to have to change some things to organize ourselves for the long haul.

O'BRIEN: I want to talk about which things specifically you'd like to change, but first, let's talk about a price tag. Donald Rumsfeld says $4 billion a month from now through September. Do you think the U.S. can afford that?

BERGER: Well, I think that it's extremely important that we syndicate the costs and risks of this enterprise. It's going to be hard for us to sustain over a long period of time being 95 percent of the force at that kind of a cost. And it's also not good in terms of the United States being the complete face here of the occupation. We are now the sole address for all of Iraqis' frustrations and resentments.

And I think one of the things that we need to do is make a serious effort to bring in other countries. We can't simply pull them in through the keyhole. We have to open the door, perhaps change the structure of the force, invite NATO in, in my judgment still with an American commander. But we're not going to get serious additional forces in if we're asking countries in Europe and otherwise to fall under an American occupation force. We're going to have to make some changes so that we're not 95 percent of the force at $4 billion a month.

O'BRIEN: We don't have a lot of time left, but I want to get back to what you said a moment ago about we need to change things. Specifically, what do you think the post-war plan should look like? What should change?

BERGER: Well, I think there are three things that we need to look at. I think we need to look at the size and composition of our force there. If you take the numbers from Kosovo, for example, after the war on a per capita basis, if we had the same number of troops in Iraq we'd have 550,000 troops. Now, I'm not saying that we need that many, but I think we have to look at whether we have enough troops there, the right kind of troops for a counter-insurgency.

No. 2, I think we need a serious effort to bring other countries in, to invite NATO in, to bring the Europeans in and to change the umbrella under which they commence, still with an American command, but in a way that makes it possible for them to come in.

And, third, I think we have to accelerate the process of bringing Iraqis into decision-making. At this point, they don't feel they have a voice in the process. They feel this is being imposed on them. We can't postpone politics in Iraq. It's going on every day in the mosques and in the marketplaces. So, we have to connect that politics up to what we're doing, so that Iraqis feel a greater degree of ownership of what's happening in Iraq today. O'BRIEN: Samuel Berger, the former national security advisor, thank you so much for joining us this morning. Sir, we appreciate it.

BERGER: Thank you, Soledad.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.





Berger>


Aired July 10, 2003 - 07:06   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: New evidence is coming out about what the White House knew before the president's State of the Union speech in which he argued for war against Iraq. In January, President Bush quoted British intelligence as saying that Iraq had tried to buy nuclear material from Niger, but CNN has learned that drafts of the speech quoted American intelligence until officials had it removed because they lacked confidence in the information.
The president on tour in Africa said he has no doubts about his decision to go to war.

Former National Security Advisor Samuel Berger is in CNN's Washington bureau for us this morning.

Mr. Berger, good morning. Thanks for joining us.

SAMUEL BERGER, FORMER NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR: Good morning, Soledad.

O'BRIEN: As you well know, Ambassador Joe Wilson was asked to explore the report of Nigeria selling uranium to Iraq. He found no evidence, and still the information made it into the president's State of the Union address. Who do you think eventually takes the blame for this? Is it the intelligence agencies or is it the president himself?

BERGER: Well, I have no idea how it wound up in the speech. It was obviously a serious screw up, and we have to sort this out, just as we have to sort out where the weapons of mass destruction, what's happened to them in Iraq. I do think the larger issue now is, however, how we move forward to, in a very difficult situation, to create a stable, peaceful Iraq and achieve our mission there.

O'BRIEN: I want to talk about more on that in just a moment for one second. You call it a serious screw up. At the same time, Donald Rumsfeld has essentially dismissed the matter, calling it just a scrap in the bigger picture. Do you think that that's true at all?

BERGER: Well, the most important speech the president gives all year is the State of the Union. If there is something in the State of the Union on the central issue of the day, of the speech that is incorrect, that's a serious problem, and we ought to sort that out and find out what happened.

O'BRIEN: Let's talk a little bit Iraq today. Do you think the Bush administration greatly underestimated just how difficult it would be to restore stability in Iraq? BERGER: I think we had a brilliant war plan, executed magnificently by our troops. I do think we underestimated -- notwithstanding the fact that many people were talking about how difficult the peace would be I think we underestimated what it would take. It's going to be a long and difficult road now, and I think we're going to have to change some things to organize ourselves for the long haul.

O'BRIEN: I want to talk about which things specifically you'd like to change, but first, let's talk about a price tag. Donald Rumsfeld says $4 billion a month from now through September. Do you think the U.S. can afford that?

BERGER: Well, I think that it's extremely important that we syndicate the costs and risks of this enterprise. It's going to be hard for us to sustain over a long period of time being 95 percent of the force at that kind of a cost. And it's also not good in terms of the United States being the complete face here of the occupation. We are now the sole address for all of Iraqis' frustrations and resentments.

And I think one of the things that we need to do is make a serious effort to bring in other countries. We can't simply pull them in through the keyhole. We have to open the door, perhaps change the structure of the force, invite NATO in, in my judgment still with an American commander. But we're not going to get serious additional forces in if we're asking countries in Europe and otherwise to fall under an American occupation force. We're going to have to make some changes so that we're not 95 percent of the force at $4 billion a month.

O'BRIEN: We don't have a lot of time left, but I want to get back to what you said a moment ago about we need to change things. Specifically, what do you think the post-war plan should look like? What should change?

BERGER: Well, I think there are three things that we need to look at. I think we need to look at the size and composition of our force there. If you take the numbers from Kosovo, for example, after the war on a per capita basis, if we had the same number of troops in Iraq we'd have 550,000 troops. Now, I'm not saying that we need that many, but I think we have to look at whether we have enough troops there, the right kind of troops for a counter-insurgency.

No. 2, I think we need a serious effort to bring other countries in, to invite NATO in, to bring the Europeans in and to change the umbrella under which they commence, still with an American command, but in a way that makes it possible for them to come in.

And, third, I think we have to accelerate the process of bringing Iraqis into decision-making. At this point, they don't feel they have a voice in the process. They feel this is being imposed on them. We can't postpone politics in Iraq. It's going on every day in the mosques and in the marketplaces. So, we have to connect that politics up to what we're doing, so that Iraqis feel a greater degree of ownership of what's happening in Iraq today. O'BRIEN: Samuel Berger, the former national security advisor, thank you so much for joining us this morning. Sir, we appreciate it.

BERGER: Thank you, Soledad.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.





Berger>