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American Morning
Latest on Dead British Weapons Expert
Aired July 21, 2003 - 08:03 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: This morning in London, overseas, the BBC confirming that David Kelly, the British weapons expert who died in an apparent suicide last week, was the source of a controversial report. That report claimed the British government inflated claims about Iraq's weapons program to justify going to war.
CNN's Robin Oakley is live in London with the very latest on that -- good morning to you, Robin.
ROBIN OAKLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Soledad.
And Tony Blair's problems on this issue continue. In the latest poll here in Britain, 68 percent of the British public say they don't trust the British government. They don't feel it's been honest over the affair of Dr. David Kelly and the questions of how intelligence was used to make the government's case for war.
Look at this newspaper headline for a start, "Voters Heap the Blame On Blair." And 39 percent now saying that Tony Blair should resign over this affair.
But, as you say, the BBC has now acknowledged Dr. David Kelly as the source of the story which has been the bone of contention between the BBC and the government. The story that ministers insisted on inserting into a dossier making the case for war, the claim that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction he could use within 45 minutes and that they did so against the advice of the intelligence community.
That is beginning to take the pressure a little bit off Tony Blair and his government because, of course, Dr. David Kelly was grilled by a Commons investigative committee, a parliamentary committee, and he said he couldn't possibly understand how he could have been the source for the story given the claims that were made. He was saying he'd never said that to the journalist, the BBC journalist, Andrew Gilligan.
And so now a lot of the pressure is being heaped on the BBC. Tony Blair's political allies are piling in to blame the BBC. And the judicial inquiry announced today basically has to decide was Dr. Kelly driven to his death by Ministry of Defense officials who leaked his identity to journalists? Was it the grilling by the parliamentary committee that became too much for him? Or was it just simply the media focus on him following a story by the BBC, which now appears to have some inadequacies? -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: All right, Robin Oakley for us in London this morning. Robin, thanks.
Jonathan Tucker as a U.N. biological weapons inspector who worked with Dr. David Kelly and he joins us from Washington, D.C. this morning.
Good morning and thanks for joining us.
I know you and Dr. Kelly were friendly. So our condolences certainly go out to you.
We appreciate your time this morning.
JONATHAN TUCKER, FORMER U.N. WEAPONS INSPECTOR: Yes, it was a terrible loss to the field and to his family.
O'BRIEN: Were you very shocked when you heard the news and then to later have it confirmed as a suicide?
TUCKER: I think everyone who knew David Kelly was deeply shocked. He was a man of enormous integrity and great intellect and he's a terrible loss to the field.
O'BRIEN: There are certainly many questions that remain in the wake of Dr. Kelly's suicide about exactly what happened and what led up to all of this. But do you think in the need that the British government did sex up the report on intelligence on weapons of mass destruction as the BBC contends?
TUCKER: It appears that the statement that chemical and biological weapons were ready for use within 45 minutes was an exaggeration, or at least an extrapolation from the available evidence. And because David Kelly was so meticulous in his analyses and had great integrity as a an intelligence professional, he was probably uncomfortable with that type of assessment.
O'BRIEN: Do you think, then, that he was essentially being set up as the fall guy for all of this?
TUCKER: It's unclear. I think he was placed in an untenable position of choosing between his loyalty to the British government as a long serving civil servant and his professional integrity as an analyst and a specialist in biological weapons. I think he felt that whatever he did, he would be betraying one side of his professional identity. So it really was a hopeless situation for him.
O'BRIEN: It seems that he was a man who was completely unsuited for public scrutiny and completely unsuited to be the center of a big storm like this.
Do you think that he felt that the controversy was completely derailing, if not ending, his career?
TUCKER: I think so. He was a man who worked very effectively behind-the-scenes. He had the confidence of senior policy makers in the British government. And I think whatever came of this controversy, his ability to be effective would be permanently damaged. So I think that was also, also contributed to his sense of despair.
O'BRIEN: In addition, some friends have said that he was reeling by what -- from what he felt was out and out betrayal by the Ministry of Defense.
Do you think that's likely?
TUCKER: I think that's also true. This is a man who dedicated his career to the British government, who was a loyal and hardworking civil servant. And to be put in this untenable position, I think, was just terrible for him.
O'BRIEN: Dr. Kelly's family put out a statement following the confirmation of his suicide that essentially said that the events over recent weeks made David's life intolerable and all of those involved should reflect long and hard on this fact.
Do you think there's one person to blame and maybe not a person, but an institution to blame here for the death of Dr. David Kelly?
TUCKER: I think perhaps not one institution, that he became caught in a media crossfire, which the British government and the BBC were engaged in an intense struggle and he was just, unfortunately, caught in the middle of this. And as you mentioned, he was just totally unused to being in the limelight and subjected to this type of political pressure.
O'BRIEN: Before we end this morning, I want you to give me a sense of who he was. I know you had tremendous respect for him personally, for his work, as well. Give us a sense of what the extent of the loss has truly been.
TUCKER: He was not only a brilliant analyst with a probing intellect who took nothing for granted, but he had great professional integrity and was a warm and gentle human being -- soft-spoken but with a very strong sense of what was right and of great professional integrity. So he is a terrible loss not only to the field, but to Britain and the world.
O'BRIEN: And, of course, his family mourning his loss, as well.
Jonathan Tucker, thanks for joining us this morning.
We certainly appreciate your time under, you know, difficult circumstances.
Thanks.
TUCKER: Thank you.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired July 21, 2003 - 08:03 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: This morning in London, overseas, the BBC confirming that David Kelly, the British weapons expert who died in an apparent suicide last week, was the source of a controversial report. That report claimed the British government inflated claims about Iraq's weapons program to justify going to war.
CNN's Robin Oakley is live in London with the very latest on that -- good morning to you, Robin.
ROBIN OAKLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Soledad.
And Tony Blair's problems on this issue continue. In the latest poll here in Britain, 68 percent of the British public say they don't trust the British government. They don't feel it's been honest over the affair of Dr. David Kelly and the questions of how intelligence was used to make the government's case for war.
Look at this newspaper headline for a start, "Voters Heap the Blame On Blair." And 39 percent now saying that Tony Blair should resign over this affair.
But, as you say, the BBC has now acknowledged Dr. David Kelly as the source of the story which has been the bone of contention between the BBC and the government. The story that ministers insisted on inserting into a dossier making the case for war, the claim that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction he could use within 45 minutes and that they did so against the advice of the intelligence community.
That is beginning to take the pressure a little bit off Tony Blair and his government because, of course, Dr. David Kelly was grilled by a Commons investigative committee, a parliamentary committee, and he said he couldn't possibly understand how he could have been the source for the story given the claims that were made. He was saying he'd never said that to the journalist, the BBC journalist, Andrew Gilligan.
And so now a lot of the pressure is being heaped on the BBC. Tony Blair's political allies are piling in to blame the BBC. And the judicial inquiry announced today basically has to decide was Dr. Kelly driven to his death by Ministry of Defense officials who leaked his identity to journalists? Was it the grilling by the parliamentary committee that became too much for him? Or was it just simply the media focus on him following a story by the BBC, which now appears to have some inadequacies? -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: All right, Robin Oakley for us in London this morning. Robin, thanks.
Jonathan Tucker as a U.N. biological weapons inspector who worked with Dr. David Kelly and he joins us from Washington, D.C. this morning.
Good morning and thanks for joining us.
I know you and Dr. Kelly were friendly. So our condolences certainly go out to you.
We appreciate your time this morning.
JONATHAN TUCKER, FORMER U.N. WEAPONS INSPECTOR: Yes, it was a terrible loss to the field and to his family.
O'BRIEN: Were you very shocked when you heard the news and then to later have it confirmed as a suicide?
TUCKER: I think everyone who knew David Kelly was deeply shocked. He was a man of enormous integrity and great intellect and he's a terrible loss to the field.
O'BRIEN: There are certainly many questions that remain in the wake of Dr. Kelly's suicide about exactly what happened and what led up to all of this. But do you think in the need that the British government did sex up the report on intelligence on weapons of mass destruction as the BBC contends?
TUCKER: It appears that the statement that chemical and biological weapons were ready for use within 45 minutes was an exaggeration, or at least an extrapolation from the available evidence. And because David Kelly was so meticulous in his analyses and had great integrity as a an intelligence professional, he was probably uncomfortable with that type of assessment.
O'BRIEN: Do you think, then, that he was essentially being set up as the fall guy for all of this?
TUCKER: It's unclear. I think he was placed in an untenable position of choosing between his loyalty to the British government as a long serving civil servant and his professional integrity as an analyst and a specialist in biological weapons. I think he felt that whatever he did, he would be betraying one side of his professional identity. So it really was a hopeless situation for him.
O'BRIEN: It seems that he was a man who was completely unsuited for public scrutiny and completely unsuited to be the center of a big storm like this.
Do you think that he felt that the controversy was completely derailing, if not ending, his career?
TUCKER: I think so. He was a man who worked very effectively behind-the-scenes. He had the confidence of senior policy makers in the British government. And I think whatever came of this controversy, his ability to be effective would be permanently damaged. So I think that was also, also contributed to his sense of despair.
O'BRIEN: In addition, some friends have said that he was reeling by what -- from what he felt was out and out betrayal by the Ministry of Defense.
Do you think that's likely?
TUCKER: I think that's also true. This is a man who dedicated his career to the British government, who was a loyal and hardworking civil servant. And to be put in this untenable position, I think, was just terrible for him.
O'BRIEN: Dr. Kelly's family put out a statement following the confirmation of his suicide that essentially said that the events over recent weeks made David's life intolerable and all of those involved should reflect long and hard on this fact.
Do you think there's one person to blame and maybe not a person, but an institution to blame here for the death of Dr. David Kelly?
TUCKER: I think perhaps not one institution, that he became caught in a media crossfire, which the British government and the BBC were engaged in an intense struggle and he was just, unfortunately, caught in the middle of this. And as you mentioned, he was just totally unused to being in the limelight and subjected to this type of political pressure.
O'BRIEN: Before we end this morning, I want you to give me a sense of who he was. I know you had tremendous respect for him personally, for his work, as well. Give us a sense of what the extent of the loss has truly been.
TUCKER: He was not only a brilliant analyst with a probing intellect who took nothing for granted, but he had great professional integrity and was a warm and gentle human being -- soft-spoken but with a very strong sense of what was right and of great professional integrity. So he is a terrible loss not only to the field, but to Britain and the world.
O'BRIEN: And, of course, his family mourning his loss, as well.
Jonathan Tucker, thanks for joining us this morning.
We certainly appreciate your time under, you know, difficult circumstances.
Thanks.
TUCKER: Thank you.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
