Return to Transcripts main page

American Morning

Questions Surround Blind Girl's Drowning

Aired July 22, 2003 - 07:40   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: The death of a 7-year-old blind girl now raising questions about a camp's policy of having blind-only counselors supervise its swim program. Brianna Nelson drowned Friday during a camp outing at Lake Calhoun in Minnesota. She was one of eight blind children under the care of three blind counselors.
Some are now suggesting the tragedy could have been prevented if a sighted person had been present to supervise.

Joyce Scanlon is the executive direct of Blind, Inc., the group that sponsored that swimming trip. She's with us live this morning in Minneapolis.

Good morning to you. Thanks for being with us here.

JOYCE SCANLON, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, BLIND, INC.: Good morning.

HEMMER: What do you say to critics who say if you had a sighted supervisor there Brianna would be alive today?

SCANLON: Well, first of all, let me say that if I knew or felt in any way that blindness had contributed to this tragic accident, we definitely would change our policy. But our evidence does not support that. I know that there are a lot of misconceptions and negative attitudes towards blindness. And our program supports a positive belief, and it is designed to show children and adults what they can do as blind people.

And so, our policy has worked and has been successful. And therefore, I guess if I can learn that it is somehow -- that policy has somehow contributed to this great tragedy, I definitely would change it. But so far, I have not discovered that.

HEMMER: Ms. Scanlon, what has been the reaction from Brianna's parents about this?

SCANLON: They -- they say that they knew coming in that the staff were blind, that she wanted to come and they wanted her to come. And they are very supportive of the program, and they believe that this must have been just her time to go.

HEMMER: We have a guest who is coming on to follow you, and I want to give you the opportunity address one of his main concerns. He says that the philosophy of the camp is wrong. Your defense of that is what?

SCANLON: There are people who don't understand or believe in what we do, and some of those are blind people. There are blind people who look at life in a way that is different from ours. We believe in a positive outlook on life and on blindness included.

HEMMER: Ms. Scanlon, I only have a few seconds left here. Would you consider a change in your policy at this point?

SCANLON: If I knew and if I found evidence to say that it was because of our policy that this happened, yes, I would change it.

HEMMER: Thank you for your time. Best of luck to you and the rest of the camp members the rest of the summer. Joyce Scanlon in Minneapolis.

I want to turn right now to Ken Rogers, president of the American Council of the Blind in Minnesota. He's also live in Minneapolis with us this morning.

Sir, good morning to you.

KEN ROGERS, AMERICAN COUNCIL OF THE BLIND OF MINNESOTA: Good morning.

HEMMER: You believe the philosophy at the camp is wrong. Tell us why.

ROGERS: The philosophy of having three blind counselors taking care of eight blind children in a public swimming facility raises some concern. It's hard enough to manage sighted children in a sighted world, darting in and out among other children, playing in the water, much less just having three blind counselors. That concerns us. Safety is our first concern. And when you're taking the care -- when you're put in the position of taking care of other people's children, you need to exercise the utmost safety concerns.

HEMMER: Ms. Scanlon's point, though, is that even with sighted supervisors Brianna's life would not have been saved. Do you have evidence that suggests otherwise?

ROGERS: Well, I don't have a crystal ball that tells the future, but it just makes sense that if you have an accident that happens -- that you're responsible for a program that is running and an accident happens, such as this horrible tragedy, one needs to step back and look at that. You just can't go business as usual with somebody that dies on your watch. I'm sorry, I just don't believe that.

HEMMER: How...

ROGERS: You need to step back and look at the policy.

HEMMER: I apologize for the interruption, Mr. Rogers. But how often is it at summer camps, where primarily blind people attend -- whether they're young or old, whether they're teenagers or adults -- how often is it that you have activities, such as swimming, where there is no supervision by sighted people?

ROGERS: I don't know the answer to that question. I can't answer that. I don't know how often that occurs. What I do know here is that we had an organization that has a policy in effect, and on the onset felt that there is no need to make any change. And I'm sorry. When someone dies because of a policy that's into effect, one needs to step back and look at that program and at least look to see if perhaps something could be done differently.

HEMMER: Brianna's not coming back. But in a word or two, if you listened to Ms. Scanlon in saying -- she says essentially that they will review the policy, at this point, anyway, is it satisfactory to you?

ROGERS: That's certainly better than what she was saying earlier this week, and I thank them for at least taking the opportunity to look at the policy. And I just -- I believe in the abilities of blind people. I'm a blind person, and -- but we also have responsibilities and accountability. We have to be accountable for the safety of whoever's in our charge.

HEMMER: Ken Rogers, thanks. Joyce Scanlon with us before that in Minneapolis. Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.







Aired July 22, 2003 - 07:40   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: The death of a 7-year-old blind girl now raising questions about a camp's policy of having blind-only counselors supervise its swim program. Brianna Nelson drowned Friday during a camp outing at Lake Calhoun in Minnesota. She was one of eight blind children under the care of three blind counselors.
Some are now suggesting the tragedy could have been prevented if a sighted person had been present to supervise.

Joyce Scanlon is the executive direct of Blind, Inc., the group that sponsored that swimming trip. She's with us live this morning in Minneapolis.

Good morning to you. Thanks for being with us here.

JOYCE SCANLON, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, BLIND, INC.: Good morning.

HEMMER: What do you say to critics who say if you had a sighted supervisor there Brianna would be alive today?

SCANLON: Well, first of all, let me say that if I knew or felt in any way that blindness had contributed to this tragic accident, we definitely would change our policy. But our evidence does not support that. I know that there are a lot of misconceptions and negative attitudes towards blindness. And our program supports a positive belief, and it is designed to show children and adults what they can do as blind people.

And so, our policy has worked and has been successful. And therefore, I guess if I can learn that it is somehow -- that policy has somehow contributed to this great tragedy, I definitely would change it. But so far, I have not discovered that.

HEMMER: Ms. Scanlon, what has been the reaction from Brianna's parents about this?

SCANLON: They -- they say that they knew coming in that the staff were blind, that she wanted to come and they wanted her to come. And they are very supportive of the program, and they believe that this must have been just her time to go.

HEMMER: We have a guest who is coming on to follow you, and I want to give you the opportunity address one of his main concerns. He says that the philosophy of the camp is wrong. Your defense of that is what?

SCANLON: There are people who don't understand or believe in what we do, and some of those are blind people. There are blind people who look at life in a way that is different from ours. We believe in a positive outlook on life and on blindness included.

HEMMER: Ms. Scanlon, I only have a few seconds left here. Would you consider a change in your policy at this point?

SCANLON: If I knew and if I found evidence to say that it was because of our policy that this happened, yes, I would change it.

HEMMER: Thank you for your time. Best of luck to you and the rest of the camp members the rest of the summer. Joyce Scanlon in Minneapolis.

I want to turn right now to Ken Rogers, president of the American Council of the Blind in Minnesota. He's also live in Minneapolis with us this morning.

Sir, good morning to you.

KEN ROGERS, AMERICAN COUNCIL OF THE BLIND OF MINNESOTA: Good morning.

HEMMER: You believe the philosophy at the camp is wrong. Tell us why.

ROGERS: The philosophy of having three blind counselors taking care of eight blind children in a public swimming facility raises some concern. It's hard enough to manage sighted children in a sighted world, darting in and out among other children, playing in the water, much less just having three blind counselors. That concerns us. Safety is our first concern. And when you're taking the care -- when you're put in the position of taking care of other people's children, you need to exercise the utmost safety concerns.

HEMMER: Ms. Scanlon's point, though, is that even with sighted supervisors Brianna's life would not have been saved. Do you have evidence that suggests otherwise?

ROGERS: Well, I don't have a crystal ball that tells the future, but it just makes sense that if you have an accident that happens -- that you're responsible for a program that is running and an accident happens, such as this horrible tragedy, one needs to step back and look at that. You just can't go business as usual with somebody that dies on your watch. I'm sorry, I just don't believe that.

HEMMER: How...

ROGERS: You need to step back and look at the policy.

HEMMER: I apologize for the interruption, Mr. Rogers. But how often is it at summer camps, where primarily blind people attend -- whether they're young or old, whether they're teenagers or adults -- how often is it that you have activities, such as swimming, where there is no supervision by sighted people?

ROGERS: I don't know the answer to that question. I can't answer that. I don't know how often that occurs. What I do know here is that we had an organization that has a policy in effect, and on the onset felt that there is no need to make any change. And I'm sorry. When someone dies because of a policy that's into effect, one needs to step back and look at that program and at least look to see if perhaps something could be done differently.

HEMMER: Brianna's not coming back. But in a word or two, if you listened to Ms. Scanlon in saying -- she says essentially that they will review the policy, at this point, anyway, is it satisfactory to you?

ROGERS: That's certainly better than what she was saying earlier this week, and I thank them for at least taking the opportunity to look at the policy. And I just -- I believe in the abilities of blind people. I'm a blind person, and -- but we also have responsibilities and accountability. We have to be accountable for the safety of whoever's in our charge.

HEMMER: Ken Rogers, thanks. Joyce Scanlon with us before that in Minneapolis. Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.