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American Morning

'Iraq's Bloody Summer'

Aired August 04, 2003 - 07:34   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Turning now to Iraq and the U.S. effort to win the peace. A new report paints a picture of a nation where nearly everyone dislikes U.S. soldiers, even if they're not trying to kill them.
The article in "The New Yorker" magazine is called Iraq's Bloody Summer." It was written by a journalist who has been in Iraq for several months, Jon Lee Anderson. He joins us now live from Baghdad.

Hello to you, Jon. I'd like to start by asking you a little bit about the reasons why U.S. officials gave up the bodies of Uday and Qusay Hussein, hoping that possibly some of these surprise attacks against soldiers would be cut down. What are your thoughts on that? Is that possible?

JON LEE ANDERSON, "THE NEW YORKER": Well, there was a great deal of skepticism here in Iraq about whether or not the U.S. had actually killed Uday and Qusay. And although it was controversial I think in the United States and elsewhere the decision to release photos of the bodies, and it didn't entirely get rid of the skepticism here in Iraq, it did go a long way towards convincing people that, in fact, Saddam's two sons and grandson were dead.

Their decision to hand the bodies back, having waited a week or so to do so in a very quiet way, a discreet way just the other day, was probably a wise thing. It kept it out of the media spotlight, which tends to be -- tends to inflame sentiments here. There are television cameras and so on. It could have well inflamed people's sentiments.

But it has not caused a reduction in the violence against American troops. In fact, there was a spike in the violence immediately after the shootings of Uday and Qusay. It's been up and down over the past week or so, but the expectation is it will continue at some low level.

COLLINS: But, Jon, the question is: Now that the bodies have been buried, is there a chance that violence could be cut down? And we know that in the past two days, there have been no American fatalities.

ANDERSON: That's true, but there have been these brief hiatuses before. I mean, I think the truly interesting moment to watch for is when Saddam himself is either captured or killed, to see whether, in fact, the fact that he's still on the lam, still a fugitive, is somehow inspiring the people that have been attacking the Americans. I think that will be a really transformative moment for a lot of Iraqis. For the first time, they will truly realize that the dictator, who has been the controller of their destinies for most of the past 35 years and still lurks, as it were, like a ghost just in the wings, is finally gone. That may be the moment to watch for. I think it's still too early to tell.

COLLINS: The picture that you paint in your article -- as we say, called "Iraq's Bloody Summer" -- is quite negative. Is there any optimism in the country among the Iraqi people? Did you speak with anyone who was grateful to what the U.S. soldiers are doing at this time?

ANDERSON: Yes, I mean, I think the issue here is not where America is being successful or making inroads. It is modest ones, and, of course it comes on the heels of the greatest one of all, which is the removal of Saddam from power.

But I think the real pressing issues for everyone in Iraq are the problems that still lie ahead, and one of those problems is winning over the Iraqi people. And most of the people that expressed their chagrin or disappointment to me about the American performance here also went out of their way to say they were grateful for the removal of Saddam. They are aware that they are theoretically free now, but that freedom is still quite an abstract notion to most of them in a country where there is great public insecurity.

I mean, I, myself, have witnessed several violent incidents and been caught up in them at random here in the capital in daylight, as has happened to many, many, many people. They have guns pointed at them randomly by foreign troops. And I think as Americans, we have to understand that for Iraqis, it's a humiliating experience to be under a foreign occupation...

(CROSSTALK)

COLLINS: Jon Lee, unfortunately, we are out of time, and I wanted to make sure we could get as much of your story out there as we possibly could today. Jon Lee Anderson from "The New Yorker," as you say, lots of work to be done and still a very tense situation in Iraq. Thanks so much, Jon Lee.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.







Aired August 4, 2003 - 07:34   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Turning now to Iraq and the U.S. effort to win the peace. A new report paints a picture of a nation where nearly everyone dislikes U.S. soldiers, even if they're not trying to kill them.
The article in "The New Yorker" magazine is called Iraq's Bloody Summer." It was written by a journalist who has been in Iraq for several months, Jon Lee Anderson. He joins us now live from Baghdad.

Hello to you, Jon. I'd like to start by asking you a little bit about the reasons why U.S. officials gave up the bodies of Uday and Qusay Hussein, hoping that possibly some of these surprise attacks against soldiers would be cut down. What are your thoughts on that? Is that possible?

JON LEE ANDERSON, "THE NEW YORKER": Well, there was a great deal of skepticism here in Iraq about whether or not the U.S. had actually killed Uday and Qusay. And although it was controversial I think in the United States and elsewhere the decision to release photos of the bodies, and it didn't entirely get rid of the skepticism here in Iraq, it did go a long way towards convincing people that, in fact, Saddam's two sons and grandson were dead.

Their decision to hand the bodies back, having waited a week or so to do so in a very quiet way, a discreet way just the other day, was probably a wise thing. It kept it out of the media spotlight, which tends to be -- tends to inflame sentiments here. There are television cameras and so on. It could have well inflamed people's sentiments.

But it has not caused a reduction in the violence against American troops. In fact, there was a spike in the violence immediately after the shootings of Uday and Qusay. It's been up and down over the past week or so, but the expectation is it will continue at some low level.

COLLINS: But, Jon, the question is: Now that the bodies have been buried, is there a chance that violence could be cut down? And we know that in the past two days, there have been no American fatalities.

ANDERSON: That's true, but there have been these brief hiatuses before. I mean, I think the truly interesting moment to watch for is when Saddam himself is either captured or killed, to see whether, in fact, the fact that he's still on the lam, still a fugitive, is somehow inspiring the people that have been attacking the Americans. I think that will be a really transformative moment for a lot of Iraqis. For the first time, they will truly realize that the dictator, who has been the controller of their destinies for most of the past 35 years and still lurks, as it were, like a ghost just in the wings, is finally gone. That may be the moment to watch for. I think it's still too early to tell.

COLLINS: The picture that you paint in your article -- as we say, called "Iraq's Bloody Summer" -- is quite negative. Is there any optimism in the country among the Iraqi people? Did you speak with anyone who was grateful to what the U.S. soldiers are doing at this time?

ANDERSON: Yes, I mean, I think the issue here is not where America is being successful or making inroads. It is modest ones, and, of course it comes on the heels of the greatest one of all, which is the removal of Saddam from power.

But I think the real pressing issues for everyone in Iraq are the problems that still lie ahead, and one of those problems is winning over the Iraqi people. And most of the people that expressed their chagrin or disappointment to me about the American performance here also went out of their way to say they were grateful for the removal of Saddam. They are aware that they are theoretically free now, but that freedom is still quite an abstract notion to most of them in a country where there is great public insecurity.

I mean, I, myself, have witnessed several violent incidents and been caught up in them at random here in the capital in daylight, as has happened to many, many, many people. They have guns pointed at them randomly by foreign troops. And I think as Americans, we have to understand that for Iraqis, it's a humiliating experience to be under a foreign occupation...

(CROSSTALK)

COLLINS: Jon Lee, unfortunately, we are out of time, and I wanted to make sure we could get as much of your story out there as we possibly could today. Jon Lee Anderson from "The New Yorker," as you say, lots of work to be done and still a very tense situation in Iraq. Thanks so much, Jon Lee.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.