Return to Transcripts main page
American Morning
Authorities Zeroing in on Problem Near Cleveland, Ohio
Aired August 18, 2003 - 08:02 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: The investigation right now into the cause of last week's massive blackout, as millions return to work this morning on a Monday, most for the first time since the power failure darkened eight states and parts of Canada. Authorities zeroing in on the problem near Cleveland, Ohio.
That's where John Zarrella is reporting for us this morning -- John, what are they saying today?
Good morning there.
JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Bill.
Well, in fact, Ohio is the focal point of the investigation at this point, or what will soon be a full scale investigation into what went wrong. And more specifically, transmission lines, four transmission lines in the Cleveland, in the Ohio area, owned by First Energy, three of those owned by First Energy, one co-owned with another utility. And it was speculated that the blackout began after those lines failed last Thursday.
But now, First Energy is firing back, saying it's not possible that the failure of those four lines alone could have caused the massive blackout. First Energy is saying that, in fact, there were other things going on outside of its region simultaneously to the failing of those lines. But nobody is being specific as to what those other events might have been.
Now, the Midwest Independent Transmission System Operator, which monitors transmission in the region, quote, said yesterday, "What is unknown is the relationship among events in the Midwest and what is occurring elsewhere in the eastern continent interconnection at this time."
So, it remains unclear if it was actually just the transmission lines or perhaps something broader than that. And the North American Electric Reliability Council is saying to pin it simply on four transmission lines may, indeed, be too simplistic.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID NEVIUS, NORTH AMERICAN RELIABILITY COUNCIL: They're part of an interconnected grid which works together. So it's really the reliability of all of the interconnected utilities, the transmission lines, generators and loads that make up reliability, not just a single utility.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZARRELLA: Now, U.S. Energy Secretary Spencer Abraham is saying that full investigative teams are getting up and running, should be fanning out across the country to find out what went wrong. But he, too, is saying it is way too early in the investigative process to pin it on any one thing or any one company -- Bill.
HEMMER: A lot of questions continue.
Thanks, John.
John Zarrella in Cleveland.
To keep it in Ohio right now, she's got her hands full again today, but she's taking some time with us now.
Cleveland's mayor, Jane Campbell, is our guest again here on AMERICAN MORNING.
We have spoken too often over the past couple of days.
Good morning again to you.
JANE CAMPBELL, MAYOR OF CLEVELAND: Good morning, Bill.
HEMMER: There was a water boil effect put out yesterday. That was all clear, I believe, as of Sunday afternoon. The conditions now today stand where?
CAMPBELL: Our water system is clear. Our power system is in order. So all customers of Cleveland Public Power and the Cleveland Division of Water -- the Cleveland Division of Water serves about a million and a half customers and we have water for everyone and it's clear, safe to drink. The only remaining problem that we have is that the beaches are not safe to swim in because there was a sewer overflow as a result of the electrical systems not functioning internationally to the sewer treatment plants.
HEMMER: What's the time frame on getting the beaches at 100 percent?
CAMPBELL: We test the beaches twice a day for bacteria content. Just to give you a sense of the range of the problem, Thursday morning they were testing about 125, 150. A hundred to 300 is safe. By Friday morning, they were testing between 300 and 4,500. So it's a fairly dramatic over flow and it will probably take 48 to 72 hours to clear.
HEMMER: There is a company there known as First Energy -- we're all too familiar with it now -- based in Akron, which is east and south of the City of Cleveland. They put out a statement. In part it reads, and I'll quote it for you, "We firmly believe it is an issue that goes beyond our power lines." This in response to the three power lines that are suspected operated by First Energy, where the problem may have originated back on Thursday afternoon.
Do you have confidence, do you have faith in the ability of First Energy to govern the electricity for your citizens in Cleveland?
CAMPBELL: Well, what we have now is we have to address this situation. We have a public power system and that public power system provides electric service to many of the citizens in Cleveland, not all. The others are provided by First Energy. But the way it works is Cleveland Public Power distributes energy that is actually provided by First Energy.
So we stand as a customer, just like everyone else. We were cut off first. And what I've asked President Bush to do is to put our utilities director, who is in charge both of public power and of water, on the investigative commission, because he's quite knowledgeable about how electricity works and has absolutely no axe to grind. And he will be able to provide that kind of sophisticated analysis, because at the end of the day, it's not just where it started, but why did it spread so wildly.
HEMMER: I want to put you in the pilot's chair for a second here. First Energy has had some problems.
CAMPBELL: Yes.
HEMMER: This past month, in fact, they were, what, found guilty of pollution. They've been warned about their debt, which exceeds about $12 billion. They've been forced to slash earnings, as well.
What can you do as the head of a major American city to keep the pressure on utility companies that provide the energy that you buy for your people?
CAMPBELL: Essentially, my job -- and I think all of our job as utility customers, which is fundamentally what I represent as the mayor of Cleveland -- is to make sure that the federal investigation is very thorough, that our local folks are involved -- that's why I've asked the director of utilities to be involved -- the Public Utilities Commission of Ohio, which is the state regulatory body. Because what is most important is that we have a comprehensive investigation that looks at not only the state of one power company, First Energy, which, of course, is high on our minds because that's our energy company, but of the entire power grid that serves our community.
HEMMER: Mayor, thanks.
CAMPBELL: Thank you.
HEMMER: You had mentioned it's a complicated answer and it's a complicated issue, too, and best of luck getting to 100 percent strength there in northern Ohio.
CAMPBELL: Thank you.
HEMMER: That's Jane Campbell, the mayor in Cleveland.
New Yorkers return to work today in a city trying to get back on track after the blackout of last Thursday. Still a bit too early to know whether or not the total cost to the city. But the health department reporting a high number of food borne illnesses, possibly because they took a chance on food that was not stored properly while the electricity was out.
Now it's back on and we'll see what happens today.
Jason Carroll at New York's Penn Station, a major commuter hub here in Manhattan -- good morning.
How goes it today, Jason?
JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Going pretty well out here, Bill.
The 7:40 train to Miami left on time. In fact, all of the trains, all of the subways are running on time. The nation's largest transit system definitely back on track. What a difference today, what it looks like out here today versus what it looked like last Thursday or last Friday when you had thousands of commuters, as you know, that were stuck out here. Today, what a difference. Look at all the trains running, people out here basically saying on my way down here, boy, it feels good to know that when you come out your train is going to be there and it's going to take off on time.
At this point, New York City, as well as other cities like Detroit and Toronto, are beginning the process of trying to add up the cost of what all of this has done to their cities. New York City transit officials alone saying the cost to their part of this about $7 million. The state as a whole, it could end up costing about several hundred million dollars. The same goes for Detroit. It could take several more days, though, before they're able to come up with an exact total.
Also, as you said, New York City health officials over the weekend did notice a spike in food related illnesses. They believe that is because people are eating spoiled food and that's why they're really trying to put out the warning to people saying, you know, make sure that before you eat something, you really take a hard look at it. The model that they're putting out there, when in doubt, throw it out.
Also at this point, cities affected by the blackout are beginning to look at their emergency plans, trying to figure out what went right, what didn't work so well. There were some problems with police communications for a short time here in New York City, as well as in Detroit. So those cities are going to be reviewing their emergency plans to make sure they can do a better job at that next time.
But in terms of the way things look out here right now looking pretty good -- Bill.
HEMMER: Yes, night and day between last Thursday evening, as you well know, because you were there.
Thanks, Jason.
Jason Carroll at Penn Station.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired August 18, 2003 - 08:02 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: The investigation right now into the cause of last week's massive blackout, as millions return to work this morning on a Monday, most for the first time since the power failure darkened eight states and parts of Canada. Authorities zeroing in on the problem near Cleveland, Ohio.
That's where John Zarrella is reporting for us this morning -- John, what are they saying today?
Good morning there.
JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Bill.
Well, in fact, Ohio is the focal point of the investigation at this point, or what will soon be a full scale investigation into what went wrong. And more specifically, transmission lines, four transmission lines in the Cleveland, in the Ohio area, owned by First Energy, three of those owned by First Energy, one co-owned with another utility. And it was speculated that the blackout began after those lines failed last Thursday.
But now, First Energy is firing back, saying it's not possible that the failure of those four lines alone could have caused the massive blackout. First Energy is saying that, in fact, there were other things going on outside of its region simultaneously to the failing of those lines. But nobody is being specific as to what those other events might have been.
Now, the Midwest Independent Transmission System Operator, which monitors transmission in the region, quote, said yesterday, "What is unknown is the relationship among events in the Midwest and what is occurring elsewhere in the eastern continent interconnection at this time."
So, it remains unclear if it was actually just the transmission lines or perhaps something broader than that. And the North American Electric Reliability Council is saying to pin it simply on four transmission lines may, indeed, be too simplistic.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID NEVIUS, NORTH AMERICAN RELIABILITY COUNCIL: They're part of an interconnected grid which works together. So it's really the reliability of all of the interconnected utilities, the transmission lines, generators and loads that make up reliability, not just a single utility.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZARRELLA: Now, U.S. Energy Secretary Spencer Abraham is saying that full investigative teams are getting up and running, should be fanning out across the country to find out what went wrong. But he, too, is saying it is way too early in the investigative process to pin it on any one thing or any one company -- Bill.
HEMMER: A lot of questions continue.
Thanks, John.
John Zarrella in Cleveland.
To keep it in Ohio right now, she's got her hands full again today, but she's taking some time with us now.
Cleveland's mayor, Jane Campbell, is our guest again here on AMERICAN MORNING.
We have spoken too often over the past couple of days.
Good morning again to you.
JANE CAMPBELL, MAYOR OF CLEVELAND: Good morning, Bill.
HEMMER: There was a water boil effect put out yesterday. That was all clear, I believe, as of Sunday afternoon. The conditions now today stand where?
CAMPBELL: Our water system is clear. Our power system is in order. So all customers of Cleveland Public Power and the Cleveland Division of Water -- the Cleveland Division of Water serves about a million and a half customers and we have water for everyone and it's clear, safe to drink. The only remaining problem that we have is that the beaches are not safe to swim in because there was a sewer overflow as a result of the electrical systems not functioning internationally to the sewer treatment plants.
HEMMER: What's the time frame on getting the beaches at 100 percent?
CAMPBELL: We test the beaches twice a day for bacteria content. Just to give you a sense of the range of the problem, Thursday morning they were testing about 125, 150. A hundred to 300 is safe. By Friday morning, they were testing between 300 and 4,500. So it's a fairly dramatic over flow and it will probably take 48 to 72 hours to clear.
HEMMER: There is a company there known as First Energy -- we're all too familiar with it now -- based in Akron, which is east and south of the City of Cleveland. They put out a statement. In part it reads, and I'll quote it for you, "We firmly believe it is an issue that goes beyond our power lines." This in response to the three power lines that are suspected operated by First Energy, where the problem may have originated back on Thursday afternoon.
Do you have confidence, do you have faith in the ability of First Energy to govern the electricity for your citizens in Cleveland?
CAMPBELL: Well, what we have now is we have to address this situation. We have a public power system and that public power system provides electric service to many of the citizens in Cleveland, not all. The others are provided by First Energy. But the way it works is Cleveland Public Power distributes energy that is actually provided by First Energy.
So we stand as a customer, just like everyone else. We were cut off first. And what I've asked President Bush to do is to put our utilities director, who is in charge both of public power and of water, on the investigative commission, because he's quite knowledgeable about how electricity works and has absolutely no axe to grind. And he will be able to provide that kind of sophisticated analysis, because at the end of the day, it's not just where it started, but why did it spread so wildly.
HEMMER: I want to put you in the pilot's chair for a second here. First Energy has had some problems.
CAMPBELL: Yes.
HEMMER: This past month, in fact, they were, what, found guilty of pollution. They've been warned about their debt, which exceeds about $12 billion. They've been forced to slash earnings, as well.
What can you do as the head of a major American city to keep the pressure on utility companies that provide the energy that you buy for your people?
CAMPBELL: Essentially, my job -- and I think all of our job as utility customers, which is fundamentally what I represent as the mayor of Cleveland -- is to make sure that the federal investigation is very thorough, that our local folks are involved -- that's why I've asked the director of utilities to be involved -- the Public Utilities Commission of Ohio, which is the state regulatory body. Because what is most important is that we have a comprehensive investigation that looks at not only the state of one power company, First Energy, which, of course, is high on our minds because that's our energy company, but of the entire power grid that serves our community.
HEMMER: Mayor, thanks.
CAMPBELL: Thank you.
HEMMER: You had mentioned it's a complicated answer and it's a complicated issue, too, and best of luck getting to 100 percent strength there in northern Ohio.
CAMPBELL: Thank you.
HEMMER: That's Jane Campbell, the mayor in Cleveland.
New Yorkers return to work today in a city trying to get back on track after the blackout of last Thursday. Still a bit too early to know whether or not the total cost to the city. But the health department reporting a high number of food borne illnesses, possibly because they took a chance on food that was not stored properly while the electricity was out.
Now it's back on and we'll see what happens today.
Jason Carroll at New York's Penn Station, a major commuter hub here in Manhattan -- good morning.
How goes it today, Jason?
JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Going pretty well out here, Bill.
The 7:40 train to Miami left on time. In fact, all of the trains, all of the subways are running on time. The nation's largest transit system definitely back on track. What a difference today, what it looks like out here today versus what it looked like last Thursday or last Friday when you had thousands of commuters, as you know, that were stuck out here. Today, what a difference. Look at all the trains running, people out here basically saying on my way down here, boy, it feels good to know that when you come out your train is going to be there and it's going to take off on time.
At this point, New York City, as well as other cities like Detroit and Toronto, are beginning the process of trying to add up the cost of what all of this has done to their cities. New York City transit officials alone saying the cost to their part of this about $7 million. The state as a whole, it could end up costing about several hundred million dollars. The same goes for Detroit. It could take several more days, though, before they're able to come up with an exact total.
Also, as you said, New York City health officials over the weekend did notice a spike in food related illnesses. They believe that is because people are eating spoiled food and that's why they're really trying to put out the warning to people saying, you know, make sure that before you eat something, you really take a hard look at it. The model that they're putting out there, when in doubt, throw it out.
Also at this point, cities affected by the blackout are beginning to look at their emergency plans, trying to figure out what went right, what didn't work so well. There were some problems with police communications for a short time here in New York City, as well as in Detroit. So those cities are going to be reviewing their emergency plans to make sure they can do a better job at that next time.
But in terms of the way things look out here right now looking pretty good -- Bill.
HEMMER: Yes, night and day between last Thursday evening, as you well know, because you were there.
Thanks, Jason.
Jason Carroll at Penn Station.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
