Return to Transcripts main page

American Morning

Baylor University Scandal Grows

Aired August 19, 2003 - 08:03   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Baylor University's president says the school is committed to its basketball program despite the scandal surrounding its former head coach. Robert Sloan commented last night during an online chat with Baylor fans on the school's Web site.
Meanwhile, audiotapes are providing new leads in the investigation into whether ex-coach Dave Bliss tried to cover-up NCAA violations.

CNN's Ed Lavandera is live in Waco, Texas with the latest -- Ed, good morning.

Nice to see you.

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Soledad.

Here these three hours of taped conversations between Dave Bliss, an assistant coach and several other players has consumed this investigation, which originally started, as you mentioned, Soledad, into NCAA violations. The investigators here at Baylor saying that they had already uncovered two instances in the Baylor program where players, two players, including Pat Dennehy -- we don't know who the second player is -- were being paid, their tuition was being paid to play basketball here at the university. Dennehy was a non-scholarship athlete.

Dave Bliss, in these taped conversations that have been reported by the "Fort Worth Star Telegram" and the "Waco Tribune Herald," was quoted as saying, "We can get out of this. Reasonable doubt is there's nobody right now that can say that we paid Dennehy because he's dead. So what we have to do is create the reasonable doubt."

Investigators here at the university saying that what Bliss embarked on in the last couple of weeks is a mission to convince several players to lie to investigators as to what was going on in Dennehy's life, creating allegations that he was involved with drug use and even selling drugs around the campus here in the Waco area.

Kirk Watson, who is the lead investigator for the university, says that these taped conversations came as a complete surprise when they were brought to their attention last Friday and that copies are being made of the tape and will be passed along to other law enforcement agencies if they want to continue to investigate this matter.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) KIRK WATSON, LEAD INVESTIGATOR: Frankly, this wasn't anticipated. This sort of cover-up was not anticipated. And, but what we've, what the committee has decided to do is that any authority that has appropriate criminal jurisdiction that is interested in listening to those tapes and having those tapes made available to them, we will make them available.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LAVANDERA: Now, Waco officials here have confronted Dave Bliss about these taped conversations. They did so last Friday. Kirk Watson told us that Bliss was shocked that the conversations had been recorded.

We've made several attempts over the last several days to reach Dave Bliss, but -- we have left notes for him and requesting interviews -- but so far he has not granted our requests for an interview or reaction to these stories, although he has been quoted in several news organizations to say that he knows he was completely wrong for doing this and that he knows he's disappointed a lot of people -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Ed Lavandera for us in Waco, Texas this morning.

Ed, thanks for that.

Let's turn now to Richard Guinn.

He is the father of Baylor basketball player R.T. Guinn, who is a senior, and he joins us this morning from Waco, Texas, as well.

Mr. Guinn, good morning.

It's nice to see you.

RICHARD GUINN, FATHER OF BAYLOR BASKETBALL PLAYER: Good morning.

O'BRIEN: It's a pretty incredible story already and it seems to sort of have sunk to new depths. Did your son ever tell you about any meetings that he was having with Coach Bliss in which the coach may have been encouraging him to be less than forthright, less than honest with investigators?

GUINN: No, ma'am. The first thing I ever knew about it was about 9:30 this past Friday night. And I was really upset because at that time I was a Bliss person. But I am shocked and amazed and upset and angry at what he's tried to do. I don't think you should ever take a boy and put him in harm's way like that, or any of his teammates. And it's just unconscionable.

O'BRIEN: I want to read you a little bit of the transcript of the tape. It comes from the "Fort Worth Star Telegram" and it says, "If there's any way that we can create a perception that Pat may have been a drug dealer, even if we had to kind of make some things look a little better than they are, that can save us." And, again, I really have to reiterate that that quote of Coach Bliss is from the "Fort Worth Star Telegram's" transcription of tapes which were made by the assistant coach.

Now, CNN has not heard those tapes, but has gotten verification from the university's lead investigator. We heard from the investigators that they are shocked. You've just said you're shocked.

What's your son's reaction been to these, what he has heard from these tapes?

GUINN: Well, until right after Pat started missing, we didn't even know he wasn't on scholarship. We thought he was on a scholarship. And as far as the drugs go, I think his girlfriend says -- the girlfriend in Albuquerque and his ex-girlfriend have confirmed everything in the papers.

O'BRIEN: Explain some time to me that I find a little bit confusing. The day after these tapes were made public, were given to the "Fort Worth Star Telegram," Coach Bliss called you up and said he wanted to come to your house to talk to your son. And he came to your house and he said he was going to tape a conversation.

First, tell me what that conversation involved and why -- did he tell you why he wanted to tape it?

GUINN: No, ma'am, and he called me about 7:30, between 7:30 and 8:00 Saturday morning, and asked if he could come over and talk to R.T. And I said yes after hesitation. And I didn't know why or anything like that. I said yes because I was still kind of up on him, because I hadn't read the papers yet and I heard there was some stuff in there, but I didn't think it was near what it come out to be. I didn't read the papers till Saturday night because everything just kind of snowballed after that. And...

O'BRIEN: So he comes to your house and he...

GUINN: ... when he...

O'BRIEN: He wants to sit down with R.T. What did he want to talk to R.T. about? What did he say?

GUINN: Basically a summary of what he said was he wanted to embellish what he went over with R.T. and the embellishments of Patrick Dennehy. And at that time, R.T., before he ever met with Bliss on this, R.T. had already talked to authorities and the commission here and give them his statement. So his statement stands.

O'BRIEN: So I'm a little bit confused, and I'm going to ask you to back up. So when he met with R.T. on Saturday at your house, he said he wanted him to lie? Is that what you're saying? He wanted him to...

GUINN: Go back over the meeting that they had at the Farrell Center (ph).

O'BRIEN: So he wanted him to embellish that meeting? He wanted him to be less than honest should investigators talk to him again?

GUINN: Yes, ma'am, but that's not going to happen. I've already...

O'BRIEN: Coach Bliss taped this meeting, you've said. You tape it at the same time.

GUINN: Yes.

O'BRIEN: You turned that tape over to investigators. Why did you turn it over and what parts do you think are most interesting to them?

GUINN: Well, I turned the tape over. I told him at the end of -- I told him I was going to make a tape, too, after he requested it, and I said you can make yours, but I'm making mine, too. And so we made the tapes and at the end of the tape I told him that I was going to take it to the commission immediately and that's exactly what I did. As soon as he left, I called over to the Baylor Law School and got a hold to one of the men on the commission and brought it to him. And it was -- I didn't know if there was anything on there that would help or hurt him, but I wanted them to have it so that if anything ever happened or he tried to use that tape against R.T., he would have to stay pretty straight because I had a tape and they had it so they could compare notes.

O'BRIEN: What did Coach Bliss say when you said to him I'm taking this tape and I'm walking over to investigators right now with it? Was he surprised? Did he try to stop you? What did he do?

GUINN: Yes, there was a little surprise in his face. But I didn't say any more because I didn't want to get into any consultations or anything like that. But he was calm when he was there. He didn't ever make any threats to us, and I don't think he should have. Well, if he had of, I'd have probably thrown him out the door.

O'BRIEN: Your son knew Patrick Dennehy. Your son knew Carlton Dotson.

GUINN: Yes.

O'BRIEN: What's his take on all of this? What does he think happened?

GUINN: Well, he's like me, he's upset. He's shocked. He's astounded that it even happened. He never thought anything like this ever happened and everything. And it's just, it shocked us both.

O'BRIEN: Shocking and it grows more and more confusing every day.

Richard Guinn, thanks for your time this morning.

We certainly appreciate it.

Thank you.

GUINN: OK.

I've got one...

O'BRIEN: Go ahead, sir.

GUINN: I've got one more thing to tell you. We have, as of yesterday at 12 o'clock, we have requested our release from Baylor so that we can look into other avenues and I think that's important for R.T. to have something as a backup in case we can't get a coach here ASAP.

O'BRIEN: Your...

GUINN: And when I say ASAP, I asked them for seven days last week and nothing's happened. Of course, I know they're working real hard on this and everything...

O'BRIEN: Your son...

GUINN: But I think this is -- we've got to go start looking, because now we're down to hour to hour and next, the latter part of this week it'll be minute to minute. And I've already got 15 calls on my caller as of this morning.

O'BRIEN: Your son joining a growing list of Baylor players who are looking to get out.

Again, Mr. Guinn, thanks for joining us this morning.

Appreciate your time.

GUINN: OK.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired August 19, 2003 - 08:03   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Baylor University's president says the school is committed to its basketball program despite the scandal surrounding its former head coach. Robert Sloan commented last night during an online chat with Baylor fans on the school's Web site.
Meanwhile, audiotapes are providing new leads in the investigation into whether ex-coach Dave Bliss tried to cover-up NCAA violations.

CNN's Ed Lavandera is live in Waco, Texas with the latest -- Ed, good morning.

Nice to see you.

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Soledad.

Here these three hours of taped conversations between Dave Bliss, an assistant coach and several other players has consumed this investigation, which originally started, as you mentioned, Soledad, into NCAA violations. The investigators here at Baylor saying that they had already uncovered two instances in the Baylor program where players, two players, including Pat Dennehy -- we don't know who the second player is -- were being paid, their tuition was being paid to play basketball here at the university. Dennehy was a non-scholarship athlete.

Dave Bliss, in these taped conversations that have been reported by the "Fort Worth Star Telegram" and the "Waco Tribune Herald," was quoted as saying, "We can get out of this. Reasonable doubt is there's nobody right now that can say that we paid Dennehy because he's dead. So what we have to do is create the reasonable doubt."

Investigators here at the university saying that what Bliss embarked on in the last couple of weeks is a mission to convince several players to lie to investigators as to what was going on in Dennehy's life, creating allegations that he was involved with drug use and even selling drugs around the campus here in the Waco area.

Kirk Watson, who is the lead investigator for the university, says that these taped conversations came as a complete surprise when they were brought to their attention last Friday and that copies are being made of the tape and will be passed along to other law enforcement agencies if they want to continue to investigate this matter.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) KIRK WATSON, LEAD INVESTIGATOR: Frankly, this wasn't anticipated. This sort of cover-up was not anticipated. And, but what we've, what the committee has decided to do is that any authority that has appropriate criminal jurisdiction that is interested in listening to those tapes and having those tapes made available to them, we will make them available.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LAVANDERA: Now, Waco officials here have confronted Dave Bliss about these taped conversations. They did so last Friday. Kirk Watson told us that Bliss was shocked that the conversations had been recorded.

We've made several attempts over the last several days to reach Dave Bliss, but -- we have left notes for him and requesting interviews -- but so far he has not granted our requests for an interview or reaction to these stories, although he has been quoted in several news organizations to say that he knows he was completely wrong for doing this and that he knows he's disappointed a lot of people -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Ed Lavandera for us in Waco, Texas this morning.

Ed, thanks for that.

Let's turn now to Richard Guinn.

He is the father of Baylor basketball player R.T. Guinn, who is a senior, and he joins us this morning from Waco, Texas, as well.

Mr. Guinn, good morning.

It's nice to see you.

RICHARD GUINN, FATHER OF BAYLOR BASKETBALL PLAYER: Good morning.

O'BRIEN: It's a pretty incredible story already and it seems to sort of have sunk to new depths. Did your son ever tell you about any meetings that he was having with Coach Bliss in which the coach may have been encouraging him to be less than forthright, less than honest with investigators?

GUINN: No, ma'am. The first thing I ever knew about it was about 9:30 this past Friday night. And I was really upset because at that time I was a Bliss person. But I am shocked and amazed and upset and angry at what he's tried to do. I don't think you should ever take a boy and put him in harm's way like that, or any of his teammates. And it's just unconscionable.

O'BRIEN: I want to read you a little bit of the transcript of the tape. It comes from the "Fort Worth Star Telegram" and it says, "If there's any way that we can create a perception that Pat may have been a drug dealer, even if we had to kind of make some things look a little better than they are, that can save us." And, again, I really have to reiterate that that quote of Coach Bliss is from the "Fort Worth Star Telegram's" transcription of tapes which were made by the assistant coach.

Now, CNN has not heard those tapes, but has gotten verification from the university's lead investigator. We heard from the investigators that they are shocked. You've just said you're shocked.

What's your son's reaction been to these, what he has heard from these tapes?

GUINN: Well, until right after Pat started missing, we didn't even know he wasn't on scholarship. We thought he was on a scholarship. And as far as the drugs go, I think his girlfriend says -- the girlfriend in Albuquerque and his ex-girlfriend have confirmed everything in the papers.

O'BRIEN: Explain some time to me that I find a little bit confusing. The day after these tapes were made public, were given to the "Fort Worth Star Telegram," Coach Bliss called you up and said he wanted to come to your house to talk to your son. And he came to your house and he said he was going to tape a conversation.

First, tell me what that conversation involved and why -- did he tell you why he wanted to tape it?

GUINN: No, ma'am, and he called me about 7:30, between 7:30 and 8:00 Saturday morning, and asked if he could come over and talk to R.T. And I said yes after hesitation. And I didn't know why or anything like that. I said yes because I was still kind of up on him, because I hadn't read the papers yet and I heard there was some stuff in there, but I didn't think it was near what it come out to be. I didn't read the papers till Saturday night because everything just kind of snowballed after that. And...

O'BRIEN: So he comes to your house and he...

GUINN: ... when he...

O'BRIEN: He wants to sit down with R.T. What did he want to talk to R.T. about? What did he say?

GUINN: Basically a summary of what he said was he wanted to embellish what he went over with R.T. and the embellishments of Patrick Dennehy. And at that time, R.T., before he ever met with Bliss on this, R.T. had already talked to authorities and the commission here and give them his statement. So his statement stands.

O'BRIEN: So I'm a little bit confused, and I'm going to ask you to back up. So when he met with R.T. on Saturday at your house, he said he wanted him to lie? Is that what you're saying? He wanted him to...

GUINN: Go back over the meeting that they had at the Farrell Center (ph).

O'BRIEN: So he wanted him to embellish that meeting? He wanted him to be less than honest should investigators talk to him again?

GUINN: Yes, ma'am, but that's not going to happen. I've already...

O'BRIEN: Coach Bliss taped this meeting, you've said. You tape it at the same time.

GUINN: Yes.

O'BRIEN: You turned that tape over to investigators. Why did you turn it over and what parts do you think are most interesting to them?

GUINN: Well, I turned the tape over. I told him at the end of -- I told him I was going to make a tape, too, after he requested it, and I said you can make yours, but I'm making mine, too. And so we made the tapes and at the end of the tape I told him that I was going to take it to the commission immediately and that's exactly what I did. As soon as he left, I called over to the Baylor Law School and got a hold to one of the men on the commission and brought it to him. And it was -- I didn't know if there was anything on there that would help or hurt him, but I wanted them to have it so that if anything ever happened or he tried to use that tape against R.T., he would have to stay pretty straight because I had a tape and they had it so they could compare notes.

O'BRIEN: What did Coach Bliss say when you said to him I'm taking this tape and I'm walking over to investigators right now with it? Was he surprised? Did he try to stop you? What did he do?

GUINN: Yes, there was a little surprise in his face. But I didn't say any more because I didn't want to get into any consultations or anything like that. But he was calm when he was there. He didn't ever make any threats to us, and I don't think he should have. Well, if he had of, I'd have probably thrown him out the door.

O'BRIEN: Your son knew Patrick Dennehy. Your son knew Carlton Dotson.

GUINN: Yes.

O'BRIEN: What's his take on all of this? What does he think happened?

GUINN: Well, he's like me, he's upset. He's shocked. He's astounded that it even happened. He never thought anything like this ever happened and everything. And it's just, it shocked us both.

O'BRIEN: Shocking and it grows more and more confusing every day.

Richard Guinn, thanks for your time this morning.

We certainly appreciate it.

Thank you.

GUINN: OK.

I've got one...

O'BRIEN: Go ahead, sir.

GUINN: I've got one more thing to tell you. We have, as of yesterday at 12 o'clock, we have requested our release from Baylor so that we can look into other avenues and I think that's important for R.T. to have something as a backup in case we can't get a coach here ASAP.

O'BRIEN: Your...

GUINN: And when I say ASAP, I asked them for seven days last week and nothing's happened. Of course, I know they're working real hard on this and everything...

O'BRIEN: Your son...

GUINN: But I think this is -- we've got to go start looking, because now we're down to hour to hour and next, the latter part of this week it'll be minute to minute. And I've already got 15 calls on my caller as of this morning.

O'BRIEN: Your son joining a growing list of Baylor players who are looking to get out.

Again, Mr. Guinn, thanks for joining us this morning.

Appreciate your time.

GUINN: OK.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com