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American Morning

'Chemical Ali' Caught

Aired August 21, 2003 - 08:38   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: The other story from Iraq, the capture of "Chemical Ali." CNN analyst Ken Pollack, Saban Center, Brookings, joins us now live in D.C.
Ken, welcome back, No. 5 on the list of 55, a man who was thought to be killed by airstrikes at his home outside Basra back in early April. Not the case. He did live through that.

What's the impact of this, knowing that essentially Chemical Ali has, from what we can see on the outside, no power in Iraq anymore. It's the terror groups that are getting all of the attention and causing all of the havoc. What's the impact of this apprehension, if anything, now?

KEN POLLACK, CNN ANALYST: You're certainly, right, Bill, this is not the kind of a grab that would probably have the same kind of impact as getting Saddam or getting his two sons dead.

But nevertheless, there can still be a couple of useful things. First, we don't know exactly what Chemical Ali's status was. Was he with Saddam? Was he participating in the resistance that Saddam and his loyalists have been mounting against the United States? If it was the case that he was, then hopefully, he'll have intelligence he can share that will allow U.S. forces to better teal with the resistance they're facing from Saddam's loyalists.

In addition, Chemical Ali is one of the regime figures who is an important symbol to the Iraqi people. Chemical Ali is one of the worst oppressors of the Iraqi people.

And while I think it is clear that the Iraqi people are very slowly recognizing that Saddam's regime is never going to come back, that he really is through, and the U.S. is never going to let him back, nevertheless, each time the U.S. can come up with one of these major figures and show that this is another person who is never going to haunt them again, it's another important psychological effect for the Iraqi people, helping them come to grips with the fact they really are in a new environment and that old regime is never coming back.

HEMMER: I take that last point to heart, and i understand exactly what you're saying. Where is this all headed? You have Chemical Ali in custody. You have Taha Yassin Ramadan, the former vice president, picked up a few days ago. If you're going to continue this theme about convincing Iraqis, what is -- is it a public trial? Is it a public display? Do you put them on television? What do you do? POLLACK: Well, I think that it certainly would be useful if you could show photographs to indicate that he clearly is captured. But then again, after the death of the sons, I think Iraqis are more willing to believe the U.S. actually does have these figures in custody. The trial is more important, because this is a man who has committed crimes against humanity. He certainly committed horrible crimes against the Iraqi people, and he should be part of a trial and reconciliation process, truth and reconciliation process, whereby Iraqis bring their worst oppressors to justice and come to grips with their own past.

HEMMER: Yes.

Let's talk about the U.N. in a broader scope right now. We're getting the word that staff's been reduced about 33 percent as of this weekend.

However, the U.N. is saying that its mission will continue. In fact, they'll be up and running again this weekend, in fact. At the same time, you have this parallel tract here in New York at the U.N. today, with Secretary Powell meeting with Kofi Annan. Where does the argument go when you're trying to draft the support from other countries to send in and contribute to this multinational force, knowing that U.S. soldiers are dying every day? How tough is that argument to make?

HEMMER: It's going to be a tough sell, Bill. I think we have to be pretty honest about this. The fact of the matter is that the resolution of the U.S. seems to be trying to draft might give some cover. I think there are indications from some countries that they really do just want a little bit more cover to be able to sell it to their own domestic constituencies, that this is worth doing so a second resolution might be helpful.

But the big issue out there, as Dana Bash was reporting, is this question of the extent of control that the United Nations will have over the operation. That's a point that the United States is absolutely been unwilling to concede anything on, and that's a point that the big countries out there, the Germanys, the Frances, the Indias, the countries that could provide tens of thousands of additional troops if they wanted to do, that is the big issue for them.

They've wanted the U.N. to have greater control. If the U.S. isn't willing to extend that greater control, then it's going to be very difficult to get those countries on board.

HEMMER: Thanks, Ken. We appreciate your being here today.

POLLACK: Anytime.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com






Aired August 21, 2003 - 08:38   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: The other story from Iraq, the capture of "Chemical Ali." CNN analyst Ken Pollack, Saban Center, Brookings, joins us now live in D.C.
Ken, welcome back, No. 5 on the list of 55, a man who was thought to be killed by airstrikes at his home outside Basra back in early April. Not the case. He did live through that.

What's the impact of this, knowing that essentially Chemical Ali has, from what we can see on the outside, no power in Iraq anymore. It's the terror groups that are getting all of the attention and causing all of the havoc. What's the impact of this apprehension, if anything, now?

KEN POLLACK, CNN ANALYST: You're certainly, right, Bill, this is not the kind of a grab that would probably have the same kind of impact as getting Saddam or getting his two sons dead.

But nevertheless, there can still be a couple of useful things. First, we don't know exactly what Chemical Ali's status was. Was he with Saddam? Was he participating in the resistance that Saddam and his loyalists have been mounting against the United States? If it was the case that he was, then hopefully, he'll have intelligence he can share that will allow U.S. forces to better teal with the resistance they're facing from Saddam's loyalists.

In addition, Chemical Ali is one of the regime figures who is an important symbol to the Iraqi people. Chemical Ali is one of the worst oppressors of the Iraqi people.

And while I think it is clear that the Iraqi people are very slowly recognizing that Saddam's regime is never going to come back, that he really is through, and the U.S. is never going to let him back, nevertheless, each time the U.S. can come up with one of these major figures and show that this is another person who is never going to haunt them again, it's another important psychological effect for the Iraqi people, helping them come to grips with the fact they really are in a new environment and that old regime is never coming back.

HEMMER: I take that last point to heart, and i understand exactly what you're saying. Where is this all headed? You have Chemical Ali in custody. You have Taha Yassin Ramadan, the former vice president, picked up a few days ago. If you're going to continue this theme about convincing Iraqis, what is -- is it a public trial? Is it a public display? Do you put them on television? What do you do? POLLACK: Well, I think that it certainly would be useful if you could show photographs to indicate that he clearly is captured. But then again, after the death of the sons, I think Iraqis are more willing to believe the U.S. actually does have these figures in custody. The trial is more important, because this is a man who has committed crimes against humanity. He certainly committed horrible crimes against the Iraqi people, and he should be part of a trial and reconciliation process, truth and reconciliation process, whereby Iraqis bring their worst oppressors to justice and come to grips with their own past.

HEMMER: Yes.

Let's talk about the U.N. in a broader scope right now. We're getting the word that staff's been reduced about 33 percent as of this weekend.

However, the U.N. is saying that its mission will continue. In fact, they'll be up and running again this weekend, in fact. At the same time, you have this parallel tract here in New York at the U.N. today, with Secretary Powell meeting with Kofi Annan. Where does the argument go when you're trying to draft the support from other countries to send in and contribute to this multinational force, knowing that U.S. soldiers are dying every day? How tough is that argument to make?

HEMMER: It's going to be a tough sell, Bill. I think we have to be pretty honest about this. The fact of the matter is that the resolution of the U.S. seems to be trying to draft might give some cover. I think there are indications from some countries that they really do just want a little bit more cover to be able to sell it to their own domestic constituencies, that this is worth doing so a second resolution might be helpful.

But the big issue out there, as Dana Bash was reporting, is this question of the extent of control that the United Nations will have over the operation. That's a point that the United States is absolutely been unwilling to concede anything on, and that's a point that the big countries out there, the Germanys, the Frances, the Indias, the countries that could provide tens of thousands of additional troops if they wanted to do, that is the big issue for them.

They've wanted the U.N. to have greater control. If the U.S. isn't willing to extend that greater control, then it's going to be very difficult to get those countries on board.

HEMMER: Thanks, Ken. We appreciate your being here today.

POLLACK: Anytime.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com