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American Morning

Israeli Attack Kills Prominent Hamas Figure

Aired August 21, 2003 - 08:06   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Back to the Middle East right now and that attack in Gaza. More on the Israeli attack that has killed a prominent Hamas figure.
Michael Holmes by video phone back with us now in Gaza City. Michael was right near the scene when it all went down about three hours ago.

What's happening now -- Michael, good afternoon there.

MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good afternoon to you, Bill.

Yes, a very dramatic and bloody scene as the cycle of violence, as is known, continues. It was only a couple of days ago I was at the scene of that unbelievably gruesome bus bombing that was carried out in what was thought to be a joint operation between Hamas and Islamic Jihad. Twenty Israelis killed and 100 wounded or so.

When we were conducting an interview here in Gaza City with a senior Palestinian security spokesman, who was outlining to us plans to dismantle the military wings of Hamas and Islamic Jihad, we finished that interview. Not 10 minutes later, Israeli missiles (AUDIO GAP) in Gaza, not less than half a mile from where we were conducting the interview.

Those three missiles coming from Apache helicopters. They, in turn, were being escorted by Israeli F-16 planes. The target, the car you see there. Inside the car was Ismail Abu Shanab, a very senior Hamas figure, a well known face to the world of Hamas and one of the cofounders of the militant organization. Inside the car him and two bodyguards. They were both, they were all, all three were killed outright. Their charred and injured bodies taken out before us by bystanders, a very angry crowd gathering there.

Now, the fallout from that was that Hamas very quickly announced that the cease-fire, as it is, as it was known, despite the suicide bombings that have occurred, was over, that the cease-fire had ended. Islamic Jihad also told CNN that it was reassessing its commitment to the cease-fire. No decision as yet has been taken by that militant group.

As for the Palestinian Authority, well, their plans that they say were well in place to crack down on Hamas and Islamic Jihad having to be reevaluated, too, reevaluated as well. Namiel Amir (ph) saying that this was an irresponsible act by Israel and said that it will obstruct Palestinian Authority efforts to dismantle the military wings of Hamas and Islamic Jihad, and that decisions taken at Palestinian cabinet meetings, both here and in Gaza and in Ramallah last evening involving Yasser Arafat and the prime minister, Mahmoud Abbas, that those were now being put on hold, those plans -- Bill.

HEMMER: Michael, what you said last hour is quite interesting. You say you placed a call to Abu Shanab earlier today, a man that you apparently have had common contact with in the Middle East throughout your reporting over the years. His cell phone was off today. Why did you find that so unusual?

HOLMES: It's unusual because it's a cell phone number that he by and large would always have switched on and a number where we usually, any time of the night or day, can get hold of him. We were trying to reach a Hamas spokesman to talk actually about a ban that the Palestinian Authority had instituted on the media talking to Hamas and Islamic Jihad, and on Hamas and Islamic Jihad for talking to the media. Now, we obviously wanted to get his response to that. And we called him on numerous occasions in the morning and his cell phone was switched off.

And, yes, we, indeed, did find that odd. And two hours later he was struck by the missile and killed, Bill. Very unusual.

HEMMER: Michael Holmes, video phone in Gaza City, thanks.

We'll wait for more from the Middle East and we are certain to get it today -- Soledad.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, no question.

What can the U.S. do in light of today's Middle East violence and just how will the Bush administration respond?

For that we are joined by Martin Indyk.

He is a former U.S. ambassador to Israel and he is now the director of the Saban Center at the Brookings Institution.

He joins us from there this morning.

Good morning.

Nice to see you and thanks for joining us.

MARTIN INDYK, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO ISRAEL: Good morning.

Thank you.

O'BRIEN: Israel strikes back. Hamas now saying it's going to pull out of any kind of truce.

How devastating is this development?

INDYK: Well, I think what we're seeing here is a return to the situation that we faced over the last three years. I think it is potentially critical for the road map and President Bush's initiative because now that we have terrorist bombings, Israeli responses -- which I believe will continue, these targeted assassinations, because they're the most effective way the Israelis have to respond to these attacks -- that the whole process will deteriorate very quickly and the Israelis and Palestinians will find themselves back in the abyss of violence and terrorism.

O'BRIEN: So if it's going to deteriorate, as you say, then what hope is left for this road map to peace?

INDYK: Well, it really depends on the president now, whether he's going to engage directly himself in a salvage operation to try to get this shipwreck up again and operating. And it's going to be very difficult. But without his personal engagement, I think it will be impossible. What he needs to do very quickly is to get on the phone with both prime ministers, tell them that the United States is going to take initiative now to get the road map moving again. Its focus will have to be on actions by the Palestinian Authority, by Prime Minister Abbas and his minister of security, Mohammed Dahlan, to act against the terrorists. Without that, nothing is going to go forward. That's the primary requirement on the Palestinian side of the road map.

They haven't been able to fulfill that function. Until they do, it's going to be very difficult to get the Israelis to exercise restraint and then go back to doing what they have to do, which is evacuating those settlement outposts, taking the army out of the Palestinian cities and so on.

So we've got to get that reciprocal process going again and only by the president's intervention is that going to be possible.

O'BRIEN: Do you think that potentially there is a point if the president is unable to do that that the towel should basically be thrown in and given up for the short-term?

INDYK: Well, the consequences of that will be that Israel will go into Gaza and clean out the nest of Hamas terrorist operatives that exists there. We saw an example of that this morning. But the whole Hamas terrorist infrastructure is intact in Gaza because the Israelis did not move in. Essentially, that's a populated area and that will cause civilian casualties if the Israeli Army does that.

It did act against Hamas in the West Bank and had some effect, but not entirely successful, as we can see. I think that's the consequence of throwing in the towel by the United States is that Israel will be left with no option but to try to clean out Hamas.

Hamas, of course, has already sworn retaliation for this action this morning and I expect we will see, in any case, more suicide bombings in the coming days. So it doesn't even require us to throw in the towel. All we've got to do is sit back at the moment and we'll see that this situation will really deteriorate very rapidly, I'm afraid.

O'BRIEN: Martin Indyk of the Brookings Institution, thanks for your insight.

INDYK: Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired August 21, 2003 - 08:06   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Back to the Middle East right now and that attack in Gaza. More on the Israeli attack that has killed a prominent Hamas figure.
Michael Holmes by video phone back with us now in Gaza City. Michael was right near the scene when it all went down about three hours ago.

What's happening now -- Michael, good afternoon there.

MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good afternoon to you, Bill.

Yes, a very dramatic and bloody scene as the cycle of violence, as is known, continues. It was only a couple of days ago I was at the scene of that unbelievably gruesome bus bombing that was carried out in what was thought to be a joint operation between Hamas and Islamic Jihad. Twenty Israelis killed and 100 wounded or so.

When we were conducting an interview here in Gaza City with a senior Palestinian security spokesman, who was outlining to us plans to dismantle the military wings of Hamas and Islamic Jihad, we finished that interview. Not 10 minutes later, Israeli missiles (AUDIO GAP) in Gaza, not less than half a mile from where we were conducting the interview.

Those three missiles coming from Apache helicopters. They, in turn, were being escorted by Israeli F-16 planes. The target, the car you see there. Inside the car was Ismail Abu Shanab, a very senior Hamas figure, a well known face to the world of Hamas and one of the cofounders of the militant organization. Inside the car him and two bodyguards. They were both, they were all, all three were killed outright. Their charred and injured bodies taken out before us by bystanders, a very angry crowd gathering there.

Now, the fallout from that was that Hamas very quickly announced that the cease-fire, as it is, as it was known, despite the suicide bombings that have occurred, was over, that the cease-fire had ended. Islamic Jihad also told CNN that it was reassessing its commitment to the cease-fire. No decision as yet has been taken by that militant group.

As for the Palestinian Authority, well, their plans that they say were well in place to crack down on Hamas and Islamic Jihad having to be reevaluated, too, reevaluated as well. Namiel Amir (ph) saying that this was an irresponsible act by Israel and said that it will obstruct Palestinian Authority efforts to dismantle the military wings of Hamas and Islamic Jihad, and that decisions taken at Palestinian cabinet meetings, both here and in Gaza and in Ramallah last evening involving Yasser Arafat and the prime minister, Mahmoud Abbas, that those were now being put on hold, those plans -- Bill.

HEMMER: Michael, what you said last hour is quite interesting. You say you placed a call to Abu Shanab earlier today, a man that you apparently have had common contact with in the Middle East throughout your reporting over the years. His cell phone was off today. Why did you find that so unusual?

HOLMES: It's unusual because it's a cell phone number that he by and large would always have switched on and a number where we usually, any time of the night or day, can get hold of him. We were trying to reach a Hamas spokesman to talk actually about a ban that the Palestinian Authority had instituted on the media talking to Hamas and Islamic Jihad, and on Hamas and Islamic Jihad for talking to the media. Now, we obviously wanted to get his response to that. And we called him on numerous occasions in the morning and his cell phone was switched off.

And, yes, we, indeed, did find that odd. And two hours later he was struck by the missile and killed, Bill. Very unusual.

HEMMER: Michael Holmes, video phone in Gaza City, thanks.

We'll wait for more from the Middle East and we are certain to get it today -- Soledad.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, no question.

What can the U.S. do in light of today's Middle East violence and just how will the Bush administration respond?

For that we are joined by Martin Indyk.

He is a former U.S. ambassador to Israel and he is now the director of the Saban Center at the Brookings Institution.

He joins us from there this morning.

Good morning.

Nice to see you and thanks for joining us.

MARTIN INDYK, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO ISRAEL: Good morning.

Thank you.

O'BRIEN: Israel strikes back. Hamas now saying it's going to pull out of any kind of truce.

How devastating is this development?

INDYK: Well, I think what we're seeing here is a return to the situation that we faced over the last three years. I think it is potentially critical for the road map and President Bush's initiative because now that we have terrorist bombings, Israeli responses -- which I believe will continue, these targeted assassinations, because they're the most effective way the Israelis have to respond to these attacks -- that the whole process will deteriorate very quickly and the Israelis and Palestinians will find themselves back in the abyss of violence and terrorism.

O'BRIEN: So if it's going to deteriorate, as you say, then what hope is left for this road map to peace?

INDYK: Well, it really depends on the president now, whether he's going to engage directly himself in a salvage operation to try to get this shipwreck up again and operating. And it's going to be very difficult. But without his personal engagement, I think it will be impossible. What he needs to do very quickly is to get on the phone with both prime ministers, tell them that the United States is going to take initiative now to get the road map moving again. Its focus will have to be on actions by the Palestinian Authority, by Prime Minister Abbas and his minister of security, Mohammed Dahlan, to act against the terrorists. Without that, nothing is going to go forward. That's the primary requirement on the Palestinian side of the road map.

They haven't been able to fulfill that function. Until they do, it's going to be very difficult to get the Israelis to exercise restraint and then go back to doing what they have to do, which is evacuating those settlement outposts, taking the army out of the Palestinian cities and so on.

So we've got to get that reciprocal process going again and only by the president's intervention is that going to be possible.

O'BRIEN: Do you think that potentially there is a point if the president is unable to do that that the towel should basically be thrown in and given up for the short-term?

INDYK: Well, the consequences of that will be that Israel will go into Gaza and clean out the nest of Hamas terrorist operatives that exists there. We saw an example of that this morning. But the whole Hamas terrorist infrastructure is intact in Gaza because the Israelis did not move in. Essentially, that's a populated area and that will cause civilian casualties if the Israeli Army does that.

It did act against Hamas in the West Bank and had some effect, but not entirely successful, as we can see. I think that's the consequence of throwing in the towel by the United States is that Israel will be left with no option but to try to clean out Hamas.

Hamas, of course, has already sworn retaliation for this action this morning and I expect we will see, in any case, more suicide bombings in the coming days. So it doesn't even require us to throw in the towel. All we've got to do is sit back at the moment and we'll see that this situation will really deteriorate very rapidly, I'm afraid.

O'BRIEN: Martin Indyk of the Brookings Institution, thanks for your insight.

INDYK: Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com