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American Morning

Unmoved

Aired August 22, 2003 - 08:33   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Alabama's chief supreme court justice will not budge is the story we've been following for several days now. And if he has his way, neither will the monument of the Ten Commandments that sits in the state judicial building in Montgomery. Chief Justice Roy Moore is delaying a federal court order to remove it, and on this issue, Moore says, he has to answer to a higher authority. The state's attorney general disagrees.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL PRYOR, ALABAMA ATTORNEY GENERAL: The rule of law means that no person, including the chief justice of Alabama, is above the law.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: Joining us from Montgomery, Alabama, Chief Justice Roy Moore this morning. Good morning to you, sir. Nice to see you again. Thanks for joining us.

ROY MOORE, : Good morning, Soledad. Nice to be with you.

O'BRIEN: Well, thank you.

The state's attorney general, we just heard what he had to say, and in addition to that, the eight associate justices of the Supreme Court say you're wrong. They say that a 5,200 pound statue with the Ten Commandments monument -- I keep calling it a statue, but it's actually a monument, to the Ten Commandments, needs to be removed and it needs to be removed now before you start wracking up the fines. You obviously have little support among the justices. Why not just capitulate and move of it?

CHIEF JUSTICE ROY MOORE, ALABAMA SUPREME COURT: My problem is not with the justices. The justices are forces by the federal court to violate their oaths of office. It's that simple. Our oath of office says we're to uphold the constitution of Alabama and the constitution of the United States. That's the law, not what a judge says. If the rule of law was what a judge says, we'd still have slavery. Indeed, the Declaration of Independence would be a meaningless document. In this case, the law is clear. In the Constitution, it says, our justice system is established upon God. It's about God. It's not about a monument, or stone or a rock.

O'BRIEN: Outside of what you believe -- outside of what you believe is actually the at issue here, at the end of the day, isn't it your job to uphold the laws of your state, and ergo, you're not doing that, so you think you're above the law. Is that accurate to say? MOORE: Wait a minute, Soledad, you said I wasn't upholding the law. And I'm telling you, the law is the Constitution, which says our justice system is established upon God. It's not what I believe, it's what the court said. He said, and I quote, "The issue is, can the state acknowledge God?" that's the issue. And if this state can't acknowledge God, then other states can't acknowledge God, and eventually, the United States of America which has "in God we trust" on or money and "one nation under God" in our pledge will not be able to acknowledge the very source our rights and liberties and the very source of our law.

O'BRIEN: If you, as the chief justice of a state, ignore a court order, aren't you essentially telling other people that you can ignore court orders? That they don't have to follow -- Aren't you essentially undermining the power of your on own court?

I'm assuming that he didn't just up and quit that we've lost our satellite system. Of course, we're going to try -- there.

There's he's back. I lost you there right after I finished asking my question. I'm not sure if you heard it, but the basic gist of it is, aren't you undermining your own court when you decide you're not going to follow a court order? You essentially send a message to everybody else, you know what? You don't have to follow court orders?

MOORE: When a court order departs from the law and tells you what you can think and who you can believe in and what your Constitution -- and to tell you that the Constitution which says the justice system is upon God and says you can't acknowledge God, he's telling you to violate your oath. And he can't do that. Judges simply don't have that power.

O'BRIEN: If an associate justice said, you know what, I want to bring in a 5,300 pound monument to the Koran and put it right next to your monument, you'd be fine wit that? You'd say, absolutely, haul that thing in?

MOORE: Well, you've got to understand, the chief justice is the lessee of the building and has charge of the things that are placed there, but a monument, whether to a Koran or anything else, is not a law. This nation was founded upon the laws of God, not upon the Koran, and that's clear in the Declaration. So it wouldn't fit history, and it wouldn't fit law. But is it law? Is a stone placed in a building a law? Everybody that should know anything about law knows that is not a law, and nor does it prevent anybody from doing anything.

O'BRIEN: A monument consistent with your own religious beliefs is fine, but a monument consistent with anybody else's personal religious beliefs, not fine? Is that what you're saying?

MOORE: No, ma'am. Whether it fits my beliefs or not is not the question. Whether it acknowledges God, and that's the question. The acknowledgement of the God of the Judeo-Christian faith is the foundation of this country, not the Koran. Everyone knows that. Now whether or not a Koran can be put in there is a different story under the establishment of laws, because it's still not a law, and it's still not establishment.

O'BRIEN: The associate justices say they're going to do whatever it takes to make sure they don't have to pay the fines that -- of maybe $5,000 per day. If whatever it takes includes getting construction workers to come in and haul this 5,300 pound monument, four-foot high monument out, what will you do?

MOORE: Well, the sad part of it is, whatever it takes is violating your oath of office and violating your conscience to uphold the acknowledgement of God, an inalienable right, and that's not even worth money, and I think it's sad when we give up that right for money, and I think that's the question in this case. But, again, my dispute is not with the associate justices. My dispute is with the federal courts who have intruded into state affairs, and we are taking this matter to the United States Supreme Court to clarify the First Amendment and our inalienable rights to acknowledge God, and we will not be deterred to the threat of money or fines.

Thank you, ma'am.

O'BRIEN: Chief Justice Roy Moore, thank you for joining us this morning.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired August 22, 2003 - 08:33   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Alabama's chief supreme court justice will not budge is the story we've been following for several days now. And if he has his way, neither will the monument of the Ten Commandments that sits in the state judicial building in Montgomery. Chief Justice Roy Moore is delaying a federal court order to remove it, and on this issue, Moore says, he has to answer to a higher authority. The state's attorney general disagrees.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL PRYOR, ALABAMA ATTORNEY GENERAL: The rule of law means that no person, including the chief justice of Alabama, is above the law.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: Joining us from Montgomery, Alabama, Chief Justice Roy Moore this morning. Good morning to you, sir. Nice to see you again. Thanks for joining us.

ROY MOORE, : Good morning, Soledad. Nice to be with you.

O'BRIEN: Well, thank you.

The state's attorney general, we just heard what he had to say, and in addition to that, the eight associate justices of the Supreme Court say you're wrong. They say that a 5,200 pound statue with the Ten Commandments monument -- I keep calling it a statue, but it's actually a monument, to the Ten Commandments, needs to be removed and it needs to be removed now before you start wracking up the fines. You obviously have little support among the justices. Why not just capitulate and move of it?

CHIEF JUSTICE ROY MOORE, ALABAMA SUPREME COURT: My problem is not with the justices. The justices are forces by the federal court to violate their oaths of office. It's that simple. Our oath of office says we're to uphold the constitution of Alabama and the constitution of the United States. That's the law, not what a judge says. If the rule of law was what a judge says, we'd still have slavery. Indeed, the Declaration of Independence would be a meaningless document. In this case, the law is clear. In the Constitution, it says, our justice system is established upon God. It's about God. It's not about a monument, or stone or a rock.

O'BRIEN: Outside of what you believe -- outside of what you believe is actually the at issue here, at the end of the day, isn't it your job to uphold the laws of your state, and ergo, you're not doing that, so you think you're above the law. Is that accurate to say? MOORE: Wait a minute, Soledad, you said I wasn't upholding the law. And I'm telling you, the law is the Constitution, which says our justice system is established upon God. It's not what I believe, it's what the court said. He said, and I quote, "The issue is, can the state acknowledge God?" that's the issue. And if this state can't acknowledge God, then other states can't acknowledge God, and eventually, the United States of America which has "in God we trust" on or money and "one nation under God" in our pledge will not be able to acknowledge the very source our rights and liberties and the very source of our law.

O'BRIEN: If you, as the chief justice of a state, ignore a court order, aren't you essentially telling other people that you can ignore court orders? That they don't have to follow -- Aren't you essentially undermining the power of your on own court?

I'm assuming that he didn't just up and quit that we've lost our satellite system. Of course, we're going to try -- there.

There's he's back. I lost you there right after I finished asking my question. I'm not sure if you heard it, but the basic gist of it is, aren't you undermining your own court when you decide you're not going to follow a court order? You essentially send a message to everybody else, you know what? You don't have to follow court orders?

MOORE: When a court order departs from the law and tells you what you can think and who you can believe in and what your Constitution -- and to tell you that the Constitution which says the justice system is upon God and says you can't acknowledge God, he's telling you to violate your oath. And he can't do that. Judges simply don't have that power.

O'BRIEN: If an associate justice said, you know what, I want to bring in a 5,300 pound monument to the Koran and put it right next to your monument, you'd be fine wit that? You'd say, absolutely, haul that thing in?

MOORE: Well, you've got to understand, the chief justice is the lessee of the building and has charge of the things that are placed there, but a monument, whether to a Koran or anything else, is not a law. This nation was founded upon the laws of God, not upon the Koran, and that's clear in the Declaration. So it wouldn't fit history, and it wouldn't fit law. But is it law? Is a stone placed in a building a law? Everybody that should know anything about law knows that is not a law, and nor does it prevent anybody from doing anything.

O'BRIEN: A monument consistent with your own religious beliefs is fine, but a monument consistent with anybody else's personal religious beliefs, not fine? Is that what you're saying?

MOORE: No, ma'am. Whether it fits my beliefs or not is not the question. Whether it acknowledges God, and that's the question. The acknowledgement of the God of the Judeo-Christian faith is the foundation of this country, not the Koran. Everyone knows that. Now whether or not a Koran can be put in there is a different story under the establishment of laws, because it's still not a law, and it's still not establishment.

O'BRIEN: The associate justices say they're going to do whatever it takes to make sure they don't have to pay the fines that -- of maybe $5,000 per day. If whatever it takes includes getting construction workers to come in and haul this 5,300 pound monument, four-foot high monument out, what will you do?

MOORE: Well, the sad part of it is, whatever it takes is violating your oath of office and violating your conscience to uphold the acknowledgement of God, an inalienable right, and that's not even worth money, and I think it's sad when we give up that right for money, and I think that's the question in this case. But, again, my dispute is not with the associate justices. My dispute is with the federal courts who have intruded into state affairs, and we are taking this matter to the United States Supreme Court to clarify the First Amendment and our inalienable rights to acknowledge God, and we will not be deterred to the threat of money or fines.

Thank you, ma'am.

O'BRIEN: Chief Justice Roy Moore, thank you for joining us this morning.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com