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American Morning
Public Housing Debate
Aired August 22, 2003 - 09:45 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: The federal government is putting public housing residents on notice. Come October of this year, about 370,000 unemployed residents will be required to perform eight hours of community service every month, or risk losing their housing. The national volunteer requirement is the subject of debate across the country. We're going to hear from both sides right now.
Judith Goldiner with the Legal Aid Society. She's in New York.
Judith, good morning to you.
Also in D.C., Melissa Pardue from the Heritage Foundation is with us as well. I want to start with you, Judith, you don't like the plan as well? You liken it to slavery? How so?
JUDITH GOLDINER, LEGAL AID SOCIETY: This applies to people who are living in public housing, but to no other residents who receive any kind of federally subsidized housing assistance. So if you have a federally subsidized mortgage, you don't have to do this. If you get section 8, you don't have to do this. If you receive corporate welfare, you don't have to do this. This is only for public housing residents, and these are people who work, most of them, and who are paying their rent. Why should they have to do forced community service or lose their homes for their entire family?
HEMMER: I've got the premise for your argument. What about it, Melissa? Why is it a good thing?
MELISSA PARDUE, THE HERITAGE FOUNDATION: Well, really, the model we have learned from in all this is welfare reform. In the 1996 welfare reform overhauled the old system, and required that recipients of welfare work in order to receive their benefits. And what we have seen since welfare reform is tremendous success. Poverty has plummeted. Welfare caseloads have plummeted. Child hunger has dropped. So clearly, it's been an overwhelming success.
HEMMER: So eight hours a week, Melissa, how does that help a person?
PARDUE: Well, and much like welfare reform, what it allows is for these people to enter the workforce and give them an incentive and a way to work towards self-sufficiency and independent living and prepare these people for work. Many of these people are currently idle are not working, and that is not true. Many of these people are working. These are folks that are idle and are receiving a one-way handout in terms of public housing and are not doing any reciprocal obligations for the free housing that they are receiving. HEMMER: So that's the other side, Judith. The other side is, get them out, get them active, and maybe that leads to a better progression in their own lives?
GOLDINER: Nothing could be further from the truth about what's really going on here. We're talking about working moms and dads who may be earning less who may be working less than 30 hours a week are going to be forced to do this. To use my own example, I have three young children. How would I be able to afford child care if I was forced to do eight hours of community service a month? I mean, that's $80 -- in New York City, that's $80 a month that a very poor person would have to spend so that they can afford to do their free work.
This is not like welfare reform, where child care was part of the deal, where training was part of the deal, where they arranged for people to be able to do assignments. This is welfare reform like no money, no benefits. That's why all of the housing authorities across the country think it's a bad idea. This is -- you know, when you look at New York City, my clients are all underemployed, they're working part time, they'd like to work full time, but there aren't any jobs for them.
HEMMER: I'm pressed for time. It's going to go down in October. Any recourse that you have, Judith, to stop it?
GOLDINER: Right now, we're working with congress, with Congressman Rangel, who's introduced the public housing resident respect act to try to get this measure repealed.
HEMMER: Got it.
Melissa, final word from you -- in the end, how does it help?
PARDUE: It helps, because it allows these people to engage in constructive activities and prepare for work that will lead to self- sufficiency. The fact of matter is, there is a significant amount of exemptions for people who are disabled, for people who are already working. People who work 30 hour a week or more will not have to meet this requirement.
So in reality, it's only going to affect about 20 percent of public housing recipients in this country, and eight hours a week of community service is not too much to ask for the benefit they are receiving.
HEMMER: We got to run. Thanks to both of you. Melissa Pardue, Judith Goldiner, thank you, appreciate it.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired August 22, 2003 - 09:45 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: The federal government is putting public housing residents on notice. Come October of this year, about 370,000 unemployed residents will be required to perform eight hours of community service every month, or risk losing their housing. The national volunteer requirement is the subject of debate across the country. We're going to hear from both sides right now.
Judith Goldiner with the Legal Aid Society. She's in New York.
Judith, good morning to you.
Also in D.C., Melissa Pardue from the Heritage Foundation is with us as well. I want to start with you, Judith, you don't like the plan as well? You liken it to slavery? How so?
JUDITH GOLDINER, LEGAL AID SOCIETY: This applies to people who are living in public housing, but to no other residents who receive any kind of federally subsidized housing assistance. So if you have a federally subsidized mortgage, you don't have to do this. If you get section 8, you don't have to do this. If you receive corporate welfare, you don't have to do this. This is only for public housing residents, and these are people who work, most of them, and who are paying their rent. Why should they have to do forced community service or lose their homes for their entire family?
HEMMER: I've got the premise for your argument. What about it, Melissa? Why is it a good thing?
MELISSA PARDUE, THE HERITAGE FOUNDATION: Well, really, the model we have learned from in all this is welfare reform. In the 1996 welfare reform overhauled the old system, and required that recipients of welfare work in order to receive their benefits. And what we have seen since welfare reform is tremendous success. Poverty has plummeted. Welfare caseloads have plummeted. Child hunger has dropped. So clearly, it's been an overwhelming success.
HEMMER: So eight hours a week, Melissa, how does that help a person?
PARDUE: Well, and much like welfare reform, what it allows is for these people to enter the workforce and give them an incentive and a way to work towards self-sufficiency and independent living and prepare these people for work. Many of these people are currently idle are not working, and that is not true. Many of these people are working. These are folks that are idle and are receiving a one-way handout in terms of public housing and are not doing any reciprocal obligations for the free housing that they are receiving. HEMMER: So that's the other side, Judith. The other side is, get them out, get them active, and maybe that leads to a better progression in their own lives?
GOLDINER: Nothing could be further from the truth about what's really going on here. We're talking about working moms and dads who may be earning less who may be working less than 30 hours a week are going to be forced to do this. To use my own example, I have three young children. How would I be able to afford child care if I was forced to do eight hours of community service a month? I mean, that's $80 -- in New York City, that's $80 a month that a very poor person would have to spend so that they can afford to do their free work.
This is not like welfare reform, where child care was part of the deal, where training was part of the deal, where they arranged for people to be able to do assignments. This is welfare reform like no money, no benefits. That's why all of the housing authorities across the country think it's a bad idea. This is -- you know, when you look at New York City, my clients are all underemployed, they're working part time, they'd like to work full time, but there aren't any jobs for them.
HEMMER: I'm pressed for time. It's going to go down in October. Any recourse that you have, Judith, to stop it?
GOLDINER: Right now, we're working with congress, with Congressman Rangel, who's introduced the public housing resident respect act to try to get this measure repealed.
HEMMER: Got it.
Melissa, final word from you -- in the end, how does it help?
PARDUE: It helps, because it allows these people to engage in constructive activities and prepare for work that will lead to self- sufficiency. The fact of matter is, there is a significant amount of exemptions for people who are disabled, for people who are already working. People who work 30 hour a week or more will not have to meet this requirement.
So in reality, it's only going to affect about 20 percent of public housing recipients in this country, and eight hours a week of community service is not too much to ask for the benefit they are receiving.
HEMMER: We got to run. Thanks to both of you. Melissa Pardue, Judith Goldiner, thank you, appreciate it.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
