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American Morning

Osama Bin Laden's Hideout?

Aired September 12, 2003 - 07:43   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: President Bush says that the latest al Qaeda tape said to contain the voices of Osama bin Laden and his top lieutenant is a reminder that the war on terror goes on; so, too, does the hunt for Osama bin Laden. There is speculation that bin Laden is hiding in the Waziristan region of Pakistan, a mountainous tribal area near the Afghan border.
"Harper's" magazine contributor Eliza Griswold has been there, and she writes about her experience in the current issue. She joins us this morning.

Eliza, nice to see you. Thanks for joining us.

ELIZA GRISWOLD, "HARPER'S" MAGAZINE CONTRIBUTOR: Thank you for having me.

O'BRIEN: Tell me a little bit about the region. You have said that these are some of the toughest people alive.

GRISWOLD: Definitely. The region is of historical significance, because, forever, the Wazirs have defied anyone coming in and taking over from Gangis Kahn (ph) onward. Alexander the Great had trouble there. Historically, it's been a very tough region.

O'BRIEN: Because of the landscape?

GRISWOLD: Partly because the landscape is friendly to guerrilla warfare. It's incredibly mountainous. There is plenty of room to hide, and one who knows the area better will do a better job. So, that's part of it.

But part of it also is cultural. The Pashtun, who are in this region, and the Wazirs in particular of all of the Pashtun, are incredibly fierce in their autonomy.

O'BRIEN: There are some who point to this region and say that is where Osama bin Laden is likely hiding. Do you agree with that assessment, potentially?

GRISWOLD: I think it's a difficult assessment to make, and the greater one is, with accuracy, the greater possibility of making a mistake. I think it's likely he's along that border. The border is over 1,000 miles long.

Waziristan is the most difficult to access for our forces and also Pakistani forces. So, I would go to Waziristan if I were Osama.

O'BRIEN: When you see this videotape that's been released -- and there's been much question about when it was actually made...

GRISWOLD: Yes.

O'BRIEN: ... and where, of course, as well -- what clues do you take from the videotape about the time of the year it was made?

GRISWOLD: Well, I would say -- I mean it's really, really cold in those mountains, and the lack of blankets and the sort of the thin clothing makes me think it's probably summer. But, again, my assessment would be somewhat arbitrary.

O'BRIEN: Tell me a little bit about the Wazirs. Why would they harbor Osama bin Laden, if indeed they are?

GRISWOLD: For two reasons. First of all, under their tribal culture, Pashtunwali (ph), they feel that it's their duty to harbor any guest who's being attacked by an external threat, on top of which very much after we went to war in Iraq the Wazirs have felt that we are on a crusade against all Muslims. And as Muslims it is their duty to protect fellow Muslims.

O'BRIEN: Would they respond at all to this reward out for any information?

GRISWOLD: Absolutely not.

O'BRIEN: Millions of dollars have no impact. These are a very impoverished people. They have no water, no food...

GRISWOLD: Right.

O'BRIEN: ... no electricity, as you point out.

GRISWOLD: Right, right. Culturally and religiously, it doesn't compute that kind of cash reward. I do think we could make inroads to the Wazirs, because the tribal elders have long been in dialogue and also in the employ of the Pakistani government. It would be incredibly easy to reach out to a group of them, speak to them and say, hey, can we go back into the villages and talk to them about changing your approach to terrorism?

O'BRIEN: We don't have a ton of time, but I want to get a quick assessment from you about the Taliban. You talked about some close calls, and there was a time when you were afraid for your life.

GRISWOLD: Well, there was a time I thought that we were going to be kidnapped, because they did come to the village to pick us up. But afraid for my life, not really, because the Taliban are notoriously interested in boys as opposed to women, and I didn't think we were under any real physical threat unless there was an alliance with al Qaeda that I didn't know about.

But Talib (ph) just means students. They could be conservative Muslims and that would be it.

O'BRIEN: All right, Eliza Griswold. The article is fascinating. Thanks for joining us this morning to talk about it.

GRISWOLD: Thanks for having me.

O'BRIEN: Appreciate it.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.







Aired September 12, 2003 - 07:43   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: President Bush says that the latest al Qaeda tape said to contain the voices of Osama bin Laden and his top lieutenant is a reminder that the war on terror goes on; so, too, does the hunt for Osama bin Laden. There is speculation that bin Laden is hiding in the Waziristan region of Pakistan, a mountainous tribal area near the Afghan border.
"Harper's" magazine contributor Eliza Griswold has been there, and she writes about her experience in the current issue. She joins us this morning.

Eliza, nice to see you. Thanks for joining us.

ELIZA GRISWOLD, "HARPER'S" MAGAZINE CONTRIBUTOR: Thank you for having me.

O'BRIEN: Tell me a little bit about the region. You have said that these are some of the toughest people alive.

GRISWOLD: Definitely. The region is of historical significance, because, forever, the Wazirs have defied anyone coming in and taking over from Gangis Kahn (ph) onward. Alexander the Great had trouble there. Historically, it's been a very tough region.

O'BRIEN: Because of the landscape?

GRISWOLD: Partly because the landscape is friendly to guerrilla warfare. It's incredibly mountainous. There is plenty of room to hide, and one who knows the area better will do a better job. So, that's part of it.

But part of it also is cultural. The Pashtun, who are in this region, and the Wazirs in particular of all of the Pashtun, are incredibly fierce in their autonomy.

O'BRIEN: There are some who point to this region and say that is where Osama bin Laden is likely hiding. Do you agree with that assessment, potentially?

GRISWOLD: I think it's a difficult assessment to make, and the greater one is, with accuracy, the greater possibility of making a mistake. I think it's likely he's along that border. The border is over 1,000 miles long.

Waziristan is the most difficult to access for our forces and also Pakistani forces. So, I would go to Waziristan if I were Osama.

O'BRIEN: When you see this videotape that's been released -- and there's been much question about when it was actually made...

GRISWOLD: Yes.

O'BRIEN: ... and where, of course, as well -- what clues do you take from the videotape about the time of the year it was made?

GRISWOLD: Well, I would say -- I mean it's really, really cold in those mountains, and the lack of blankets and the sort of the thin clothing makes me think it's probably summer. But, again, my assessment would be somewhat arbitrary.

O'BRIEN: Tell me a little bit about the Wazirs. Why would they harbor Osama bin Laden, if indeed they are?

GRISWOLD: For two reasons. First of all, under their tribal culture, Pashtunwali (ph), they feel that it's their duty to harbor any guest who's being attacked by an external threat, on top of which very much after we went to war in Iraq the Wazirs have felt that we are on a crusade against all Muslims. And as Muslims it is their duty to protect fellow Muslims.

O'BRIEN: Would they respond at all to this reward out for any information?

GRISWOLD: Absolutely not.

O'BRIEN: Millions of dollars have no impact. These are a very impoverished people. They have no water, no food...

GRISWOLD: Right.

O'BRIEN: ... no electricity, as you point out.

GRISWOLD: Right, right. Culturally and religiously, it doesn't compute that kind of cash reward. I do think we could make inroads to the Wazirs, because the tribal elders have long been in dialogue and also in the employ of the Pakistani government. It would be incredibly easy to reach out to a group of them, speak to them and say, hey, can we go back into the villages and talk to them about changing your approach to terrorism?

O'BRIEN: We don't have a ton of time, but I want to get a quick assessment from you about the Taliban. You talked about some close calls, and there was a time when you were afraid for your life.

GRISWOLD: Well, there was a time I thought that we were going to be kidnapped, because they did come to the village to pick us up. But afraid for my life, not really, because the Taliban are notoriously interested in boys as opposed to women, and I didn't think we were under any real physical threat unless there was an alliance with al Qaeda that I didn't know about.

But Talib (ph) just means students. They could be conservative Muslims and that would be it.

O'BRIEN: All right, Eliza Griswold. The article is fascinating. Thanks for joining us this morning to talk about it.

GRISWOLD: Thanks for having me.

O'BRIEN: Appreciate it.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.