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American Morning

Discussion With Jeffrey Toobin

Aired September 15, 2003 - 08:23   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Florida real estate investor Kevin Shelton says he gives away cash in the name of hope and kindness. But when Shelton took out his so-called cash canon -- believe it or not, that's what it's called -- that's over the weekend in St. Petersburg, 12 people were injured who were trying to get a hold on the money, nearly $10,000 in all.
Now, half of the hurt people were taken to the hospitals. Others were treated on the scene.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was knocked down. My daughter was knocked down. It's not worth a dollar.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Attacked by kids, all right? This isn't love. This isn't hope and peace. This is a mad house and this is wrong.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Whoa.

O'BRIEN: Shelton was taken into custody after the event. He hasn't been charged yet. But he says he didn't intend for anybody to get hurt.

Does that not raise a lot of legal issues or what?

HEMMER: I would say. That's our legal topic of the day right there.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: That's right.

O'BRIEN: We've got Jeff Toobin.

TOOBIN: The topic is don't be an idiot and shoot money into the air.

O'BRIEN: But, you know, I'm curious, legally, does he have a responsibility to all those people who are now in the hospital injured?

TOOBIN: Well, boy, you know, I...

O'BRIEN: A lot of people were in the spot.

TOOBIN: I think you've stumped me here.

HEMMER: You bet. That wasn't on the menu until now.

TOOBIN: Yes, it's sort of like, I guess it's like creating a nuisance. I mean I suppose he could be sued on the ground that, you know, creating a condition that you would reasonably expect to have this result.

HEMMER: This is Jeff Toobin, by the way.

TOOBIN: But I'm a little unsure. I'm sort of riffing here on the spur of the moment.

O'BRIEN: All right, just curious.

TOOBIN: I think he ought to knock it off.

O'BRIEN: Yes, the blast of hope and kindness was not...

TOOBIN: Give to charity, how about that for a good idea?

O'BRIEN: ... with the cash cannon.

TOOBIN: That's right, a cannon.

HEMMER: Jack is out today, so Jeff is going to help us through our e-mail segments today. A number of legal issues we're looking at today. We solicited e-mails throughout the morning. A couple we're getting right now. Here's one from Marguerite out of Seattle. She writes, "We hear rumors that the government is getting close to actually charging Kenneth Lay, etc. The question is where are we actually on this case? What will they eventually be charged with? Is there any chance that the government will be able to recover any of their ill gotten gains and return them to the employees and investors of Enron?"

That's a lot here, Marguerite. And...

O'BRIEN: And, there's more.

HEMMER: "Any update -- "

TOOBIN: That's only three (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

HEMMER: That's right. "-- on the rest of the corporate crooks and the cases against them?"

Thanks for that in Seattle, Washington.

TOOBIN: Well, there was a big guilty pleas last week. Ben Glisan, who was a treasurer of Enron, pled guilty and agreed to a five year sentence, which he is the highest ranking person so far charged -- so far convicted in the Enron situation. Jeffrey Fastow, the CFO, has been charged. He's awaiting trial. As for Kenneth Lay and Jeffrey Skilling, no charges yet and it's going to be tough to make a case against them. HEMMER: Right.

O'BRIEN: How about ever getting the money back, which seems to be a big issue? Because Kenneth Lay spent, at least his wife said they don't have any money.

TOOBIN: They're -- it's very tough to get money back once people have made it. Certainly they're not making any more money off of Enron. But in terms of getting back the ill gotten gains, a long time. A lot of lawyers making money in the Enron case. So far no one else is getting any money back.

O'BRIEN: All right, this e-mail is from Allen. "If the Patriot Act is passed with all provisions wanted by Attorney General Ashcroft, can it later be taken before the Supreme Court for a test of constitutionality?"

TOOBIN: You know, sometimes I worry that I don't give categorical answers. This I can give a categorical answer to, absolutely. There are a lot of different provisions in the Patriot Act involving surveillance, involving increase sentences. There won't be one single case where all of those are considered. But as those cases move through the system, as this -- the people are prosecuted under the Patriot Act, no question, the Supreme Court will consider some of those issues.

O'BRIEN: All right.

HEMMER: How do you like this game, Ask The Attorney?

TOOBIN: So far so good. I'm a little weak on the cash cannon.

O'BRIEN: We haven't asked...

TOOBIN: I don't feel like I really did justice to the cash cannon.

HEMMER: That's why we have researchers.

TOOBIN: Right.

O'BRIEN: We haven't asked you any questions about refinancing mortgages and other tricky things.

TOOBIN: Yes, I don't know any practical law questions. But I, you know...

O'BRIEN: Read up on it for the next one.

TOOBIN: ... the Patriot Act -- that's right.

HEMMER: Good deal.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com






Aired September 15, 2003 - 08:23   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Florida real estate investor Kevin Shelton says he gives away cash in the name of hope and kindness. But when Shelton took out his so-called cash canon -- believe it or not, that's what it's called -- that's over the weekend in St. Petersburg, 12 people were injured who were trying to get a hold on the money, nearly $10,000 in all.
Now, half of the hurt people were taken to the hospitals. Others were treated on the scene.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was knocked down. My daughter was knocked down. It's not worth a dollar.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Attacked by kids, all right? This isn't love. This isn't hope and peace. This is a mad house and this is wrong.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Whoa.

O'BRIEN: Shelton was taken into custody after the event. He hasn't been charged yet. But he says he didn't intend for anybody to get hurt.

Does that not raise a lot of legal issues or what?

HEMMER: I would say. That's our legal topic of the day right there.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: That's right.

O'BRIEN: We've got Jeff Toobin.

TOOBIN: The topic is don't be an idiot and shoot money into the air.

O'BRIEN: But, you know, I'm curious, legally, does he have a responsibility to all those people who are now in the hospital injured?

TOOBIN: Well, boy, you know, I...

O'BRIEN: A lot of people were in the spot.

TOOBIN: I think you've stumped me here.

HEMMER: You bet. That wasn't on the menu until now.

TOOBIN: Yes, it's sort of like, I guess it's like creating a nuisance. I mean I suppose he could be sued on the ground that, you know, creating a condition that you would reasonably expect to have this result.

HEMMER: This is Jeff Toobin, by the way.

TOOBIN: But I'm a little unsure. I'm sort of riffing here on the spur of the moment.

O'BRIEN: All right, just curious.

TOOBIN: I think he ought to knock it off.

O'BRIEN: Yes, the blast of hope and kindness was not...

TOOBIN: Give to charity, how about that for a good idea?

O'BRIEN: ... with the cash cannon.

TOOBIN: That's right, a cannon.

HEMMER: Jack is out today, so Jeff is going to help us through our e-mail segments today. A number of legal issues we're looking at today. We solicited e-mails throughout the morning. A couple we're getting right now. Here's one from Marguerite out of Seattle. She writes, "We hear rumors that the government is getting close to actually charging Kenneth Lay, etc. The question is where are we actually on this case? What will they eventually be charged with? Is there any chance that the government will be able to recover any of their ill gotten gains and return them to the employees and investors of Enron?"

That's a lot here, Marguerite. And...

O'BRIEN: And, there's more.

HEMMER: "Any update -- "

TOOBIN: That's only three (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

HEMMER: That's right. "-- on the rest of the corporate crooks and the cases against them?"

Thanks for that in Seattle, Washington.

TOOBIN: Well, there was a big guilty pleas last week. Ben Glisan, who was a treasurer of Enron, pled guilty and agreed to a five year sentence, which he is the highest ranking person so far charged -- so far convicted in the Enron situation. Jeffrey Fastow, the CFO, has been charged. He's awaiting trial. As for Kenneth Lay and Jeffrey Skilling, no charges yet and it's going to be tough to make a case against them. HEMMER: Right.

O'BRIEN: How about ever getting the money back, which seems to be a big issue? Because Kenneth Lay spent, at least his wife said they don't have any money.

TOOBIN: They're -- it's very tough to get money back once people have made it. Certainly they're not making any more money off of Enron. But in terms of getting back the ill gotten gains, a long time. A lot of lawyers making money in the Enron case. So far no one else is getting any money back.

O'BRIEN: All right, this e-mail is from Allen. "If the Patriot Act is passed with all provisions wanted by Attorney General Ashcroft, can it later be taken before the Supreme Court for a test of constitutionality?"

TOOBIN: You know, sometimes I worry that I don't give categorical answers. This I can give a categorical answer to, absolutely. There are a lot of different provisions in the Patriot Act involving surveillance, involving increase sentences. There won't be one single case where all of those are considered. But as those cases move through the system, as this -- the people are prosecuted under the Patriot Act, no question, the Supreme Court will consider some of those issues.

O'BRIEN: All right.

HEMMER: How do you like this game, Ask The Attorney?

TOOBIN: So far so good. I'm a little weak on the cash cannon.

O'BRIEN: We haven't asked...

TOOBIN: I don't feel like I really did justice to the cash cannon.

HEMMER: That's why we have researchers.

TOOBIN: Right.

O'BRIEN: We haven't asked you any questions about refinancing mortgages and other tricky things.

TOOBIN: Yes, I don't know any practical law questions. But I, you know...

O'BRIEN: Read up on it for the next one.

TOOBIN: ... the Patriot Act -- that's right.

HEMMER: Good deal.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com