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American Morning
Battle for California
Aired September 16, 2003 - 08:15 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: From California recall opponents vowing to fight yesterday's Ninth Circuit ruling to postpone that vote in October. While many agree that it likely helps the governor, Gray Davis, fight the recall, it's not necessarily all good news for the governor.
Let's talk more about it. From San Francisco, first of all -- from Sacramento, rather, California Democratic Party spokesman Bob Mulholland is our guest.
Good morning to you.
BOB MULHOLLAND, CALIFORNIA DEMOCRATIC PARTY: Good morning.
HEMMER: And in San Francisco, now we've got it right, California Republican Party Chairman Duf Sundheim.
Good to see you, as well.
Good morning to you.
DUF SUNDHEIM, CALIFORNIA REPUBLICAN PARTY: Good morning, Bill.
HEMMER: I want to start on the Democratic side, to Bob Mulholland.
Why do you believe extending this vote, carrying out, changing all the voting machines, actually makes a better election in your state?
MULHOLLAND: Well, a couple of things. One is that from the national Democrats to the California Democrats, we want every voted counted. We've been fighting for that and I think the U.S. Supreme Court and the Republican U.S. Supreme Court ruled that in December of 2000.
But politically, I'd actually like this election to happen October 7. The momentum is going against this recall. President Clinton had a great visit here. The headlines today -- I'm sure Duf must have choked on his coffee this morning -- was Bush's popularity has plunged to record lows in California.
So, politically it's the right time. But let's not forget what this really is about is every vote counts and that's what the court decided, that people's ballots should be counted. And it was Bill Jones, the Republican secretary of state, who agreed over a year ago that these punch card chad systems would no longer be used in California after the summer of 2003.
So it was a Republican agreement in a court case. And now, because the Republicans brought this recall on -- we could have had it in March, saved $70 million and not had the chad problem -- but now as a result of the Republican decisions, first with Bill Jones and now with the recall, we have this scenario which is just chaos out here.
HEMMER: Let me move to the Republican side right now and Duf Sundheim. Join in on this thought, this whole idea about postponing this vote into the 2nd of March. It's the same day as the Democratic primary. Can a Republican win the top spot in your state on a day like that?
SUNDHEIM: Absolutely. But, you know, Bob talks about Clinton and he talks about Bush, he talks to everybody about Gray Davis and his failed leadership. But what's really important to keep in mind, Bill, is that the system that was in place to elect this governor all of a sudden isn't good enough to recall him. Bob referred to Bill Jones and the decision that the courts made, which was approved of by the ACLU, that we would use the existing system through -- for every election, including the election of this governor in '02, and that in the '04 election we would go to a different system.
Three hundred thousand ballots already have been cast and now this court, which a few months ago declared "The Pledge of Allegiance" unconstitutional, is stopping an election in mid-process. That's shameful and makes a mockery of the democratic process.
HEMMER: You bring us to the next point. Bob Mulholland, do you believe the Supreme Court will take this case?
MULHOLLAND: I have no idea. But, you know, I was down in Florida for the recount and that was one surprise after another. Clearly, the legal experts are confused on this matter. But from what I understand, the legal decisions have to be resolved by Monday. You know, today is, three weeks from today is this election. And, again, politically, we're going to defeat this recall and now the Republicans have brought about it, we'll go and defeat it, whatever the courts decide.
HEMMER: In your elections office there in Sacramento, how long would it take to replace the current system you have in place?
MULHOLLAND: Well, the legal agreement that Bill Jones, again, and the courts decided on, and where they came up with the money, both the federal and the state, they knew it would take over a year, and that's why they said, Bill Jones wanted it to be 2006, but the court agreement with Bill Jones was to have it in 2003. It takes months. They'll not have it ready until March.
HEMMER: Yes, one final thought here, Duf Sundheim, jump in on this one, if it doesn't happen until March, does that give you an advantage because you have a governor, essentially, who's campaigning for six months instead of governing?
SUNDHEIM: Yes, but the losers in this process, Bill, are the voters of California. They want a change in this direction of this government and that's who's losing by delaying this additional months. It helps our candidates because, one, it shows the failed leadership of Davis, and, two, it gives our candidates an opportunity to present their views.
HEMMER: Listen, thank you both, gentlemen, in San Francisco and Sacramento.
MULHOLLAND: Thanks a lot, Bill.
HEMMER: It gets more interesting by the day.
Bob Mulholland out there and Duf Sundheim, many thanks.
SUNDHEIM: Thank you.
HEMMER: And Arnold Schwarzenegger, by the way, a guest Wednesday night, "Larry King Live," 9:00 Eastern, 6:00 in California here on CNN.
More now with Soledad.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: And it is time once again, in fact, to ask the analyst about the California recall saga and other political issues.
CNN senior analyst Jeff Greenfield is back.
You heard what these guys had to say.
Where do you weigh in on that? I mean overall, what happens next and who benefits depending on the timeline?
JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The only thing, given what's up over the last two months, that might surprise me is if a spacecraft landed in front of the state capital in Sacramento and the alien got out...
HEMMER: Oh, there's still time.
GREENFIELD: ... and asked for a driver's license. I mean because this is the folly of people like me thinking they can predict. We don't know if the Supreme Court's going to take the case. You could argue that they want to stay out or that they feel the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals misapplied "Bush vs. (ph) Gore." You can get an analysis that this will help or hurt either side.
But what I do think is that we are headed, if this election now takes place on -- either in October or March, we still have the small detail of people trying to cope with a ballot with 135 names on it. So whether you've got punch cards, paper ballots, optical scans, I think the next big under covered story is the potential for an election day train wreck on purely logistical grounds.
HEMMER: The small detail.
O'BRIEN: A train wreck because of the sheer numbers or train wreck because of the...
GREENFIELD: Yes.
O'BRIEN: ... the system cannot handle that volume.
GREENFIELD: Yes. You know, if the punch card ballots, 135 names on them, you're going to have to give them four or five different cards, people might punch two or three different names. We've never had a recall like this before, except in North Dakota in 1921. Nobody remembers -- you know, very few people around today. We've never had 135 candidates on a ballot. And I think that all of our conversation, what will happen, what might happen, when will the election take place, we just keep our eye on the ball. I think election day could be one of the great catastrophes logistically in American politics.
O'BRIEN: OK.
HEMMER: So there.
O'BRIEN: That's scaring me at this point.
Thank you.
We're going to ask you to stick around with us, of course, for the rest of the morning to answer e-mail questions.
HEMMER: And ultimately we have to see whether or not the highest court is going to step into a state issue.
GREENFIELD: Yes. Sure.
O'BRIEN: But, as he says, even if they did...
GREENFIELD: But at some they're going to have to vote and there are going to be 135 candidates on this ballot.
O'BRIEN: Right.
HEMMER: Thanks, Jeff.
Talk to you again.
O'BRIEN: Yes.
HEMMER: Bye-bye.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired September 16, 2003 - 08:15 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: From California recall opponents vowing to fight yesterday's Ninth Circuit ruling to postpone that vote in October. While many agree that it likely helps the governor, Gray Davis, fight the recall, it's not necessarily all good news for the governor.
Let's talk more about it. From San Francisco, first of all -- from Sacramento, rather, California Democratic Party spokesman Bob Mulholland is our guest.
Good morning to you.
BOB MULHOLLAND, CALIFORNIA DEMOCRATIC PARTY: Good morning.
HEMMER: And in San Francisco, now we've got it right, California Republican Party Chairman Duf Sundheim.
Good to see you, as well.
Good morning to you.
DUF SUNDHEIM, CALIFORNIA REPUBLICAN PARTY: Good morning, Bill.
HEMMER: I want to start on the Democratic side, to Bob Mulholland.
Why do you believe extending this vote, carrying out, changing all the voting machines, actually makes a better election in your state?
MULHOLLAND: Well, a couple of things. One is that from the national Democrats to the California Democrats, we want every voted counted. We've been fighting for that and I think the U.S. Supreme Court and the Republican U.S. Supreme Court ruled that in December of 2000.
But politically, I'd actually like this election to happen October 7. The momentum is going against this recall. President Clinton had a great visit here. The headlines today -- I'm sure Duf must have choked on his coffee this morning -- was Bush's popularity has plunged to record lows in California.
So, politically it's the right time. But let's not forget what this really is about is every vote counts and that's what the court decided, that people's ballots should be counted. And it was Bill Jones, the Republican secretary of state, who agreed over a year ago that these punch card chad systems would no longer be used in California after the summer of 2003.
So it was a Republican agreement in a court case. And now, because the Republicans brought this recall on -- we could have had it in March, saved $70 million and not had the chad problem -- but now as a result of the Republican decisions, first with Bill Jones and now with the recall, we have this scenario which is just chaos out here.
HEMMER: Let me move to the Republican side right now and Duf Sundheim. Join in on this thought, this whole idea about postponing this vote into the 2nd of March. It's the same day as the Democratic primary. Can a Republican win the top spot in your state on a day like that?
SUNDHEIM: Absolutely. But, you know, Bob talks about Clinton and he talks about Bush, he talks to everybody about Gray Davis and his failed leadership. But what's really important to keep in mind, Bill, is that the system that was in place to elect this governor all of a sudden isn't good enough to recall him. Bob referred to Bill Jones and the decision that the courts made, which was approved of by the ACLU, that we would use the existing system through -- for every election, including the election of this governor in '02, and that in the '04 election we would go to a different system.
Three hundred thousand ballots already have been cast and now this court, which a few months ago declared "The Pledge of Allegiance" unconstitutional, is stopping an election in mid-process. That's shameful and makes a mockery of the democratic process.
HEMMER: You bring us to the next point. Bob Mulholland, do you believe the Supreme Court will take this case?
MULHOLLAND: I have no idea. But, you know, I was down in Florida for the recount and that was one surprise after another. Clearly, the legal experts are confused on this matter. But from what I understand, the legal decisions have to be resolved by Monday. You know, today is, three weeks from today is this election. And, again, politically, we're going to defeat this recall and now the Republicans have brought about it, we'll go and defeat it, whatever the courts decide.
HEMMER: In your elections office there in Sacramento, how long would it take to replace the current system you have in place?
MULHOLLAND: Well, the legal agreement that Bill Jones, again, and the courts decided on, and where they came up with the money, both the federal and the state, they knew it would take over a year, and that's why they said, Bill Jones wanted it to be 2006, but the court agreement with Bill Jones was to have it in 2003. It takes months. They'll not have it ready until March.
HEMMER: Yes, one final thought here, Duf Sundheim, jump in on this one, if it doesn't happen until March, does that give you an advantage because you have a governor, essentially, who's campaigning for six months instead of governing?
SUNDHEIM: Yes, but the losers in this process, Bill, are the voters of California. They want a change in this direction of this government and that's who's losing by delaying this additional months. It helps our candidates because, one, it shows the failed leadership of Davis, and, two, it gives our candidates an opportunity to present their views.
HEMMER: Listen, thank you both, gentlemen, in San Francisco and Sacramento.
MULHOLLAND: Thanks a lot, Bill.
HEMMER: It gets more interesting by the day.
Bob Mulholland out there and Duf Sundheim, many thanks.
SUNDHEIM: Thank you.
HEMMER: And Arnold Schwarzenegger, by the way, a guest Wednesday night, "Larry King Live," 9:00 Eastern, 6:00 in California here on CNN.
More now with Soledad.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: And it is time once again, in fact, to ask the analyst about the California recall saga and other political issues.
CNN senior analyst Jeff Greenfield is back.
You heard what these guys had to say.
Where do you weigh in on that? I mean overall, what happens next and who benefits depending on the timeline?
JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The only thing, given what's up over the last two months, that might surprise me is if a spacecraft landed in front of the state capital in Sacramento and the alien got out...
HEMMER: Oh, there's still time.
GREENFIELD: ... and asked for a driver's license. I mean because this is the folly of people like me thinking they can predict. We don't know if the Supreme Court's going to take the case. You could argue that they want to stay out or that they feel the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals misapplied "Bush vs. (ph) Gore." You can get an analysis that this will help or hurt either side.
But what I do think is that we are headed, if this election now takes place on -- either in October or March, we still have the small detail of people trying to cope with a ballot with 135 names on it. So whether you've got punch cards, paper ballots, optical scans, I think the next big under covered story is the potential for an election day train wreck on purely logistical grounds.
HEMMER: The small detail.
O'BRIEN: A train wreck because of the sheer numbers or train wreck because of the...
GREENFIELD: Yes.
O'BRIEN: ... the system cannot handle that volume.
GREENFIELD: Yes. You know, if the punch card ballots, 135 names on them, you're going to have to give them four or five different cards, people might punch two or three different names. We've never had a recall like this before, except in North Dakota in 1921. Nobody remembers -- you know, very few people around today. We've never had 135 candidates on a ballot. And I think that all of our conversation, what will happen, what might happen, when will the election take place, we just keep our eye on the ball. I think election day could be one of the great catastrophes logistically in American politics.
O'BRIEN: OK.
HEMMER: So there.
O'BRIEN: That's scaring me at this point.
Thank you.
We're going to ask you to stick around with us, of course, for the rest of the morning to answer e-mail questions.
HEMMER: And ultimately we have to see whether or not the highest court is going to step into a state issue.
GREENFIELD: Yes. Sure.
O'BRIEN: But, as he says, even if they did...
GREENFIELD: But at some they're going to have to vote and there are going to be 135 candidates on this ballot.
O'BRIEN: Right.
HEMMER: Thanks, Jeff.
Talk to you again.
O'BRIEN: Yes.
HEMMER: Bye-bye.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
