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American Morning
Weapons of Mass Destruction Search
Aired September 29, 2003 - 07:05 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: To the White House now, where they say the best defense is a good offense. The Bush administration is striking back at critics who claim that faulty intelligence was used to launch the Iraq war back in March.
The furor also over the president's $87 billion request for Iraq and Afghanistan has not died down in Congress, critical questions this week.
Dana Bash kicks it off live from the Front Lawn this morning for us.
Good morning there.
DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Bill.
And that $87 billion is already going to be the subject of an impassioned debate in Congress. Congress will take it up this coming week, but it will no doubt be even more impassioned because of new questions about weapons of mass destruction and the intelligence that led up to the war in Iraq.
Jane Harmon, the Democratic ranking member of the House Intelligence Committee, and the intelligence chairman in the House have written a letter to the CIA, saying that some of the intelligence was circumstantial and fragmentary.
And the CIA yesterday said that they stand by their assessment, as does the secretary of state, who made the rounds on the talk shows, reminding everyone that Saddam Hussein used chemical weapons, like VX gas, against his own people.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: If you want to believe that he suddenly gave up that weapon and had no further interest in those sorts of weapons -- whether it be chemical, biological or nuclear -- then I think it's a bit naive to believe that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: But the administration has another issue coming up this week, and that is David Kay, the man who they have put in charge of looking for the weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, will be giving a report to Congress. He's expected to say that no weapons of mass destruction have been found. Bill, the administration says that this is just an interim report. It is not conclusive. And that he has miles and miles of documents to go, Iraqis to investigate and to interview. So, they still believe -- they still stand by the fact that weapons of mass destruction will be found eventually in Iraq -- Bill.
HEMMER: One more topic, quickly, Dana. The Justice Department is trying to find out who leaked information that revealed the identity of a CIA operative. The agent's husband blaming the President Bush advisor Karl Rove. The White House spokesman denying that. What's the latest on this on a Monday?
BASH: Well, the White House is still denying that anybody at the White House leaked the information, leaked the identity of that agent. Condoleezza Rice, the national security advisor, saying that the Justice Department is investigating, that the White House will cooperate, even if that means giving over some phone logs and other documentation.
But Democrats are saying that they want an independent investigation not by the Justice Department, and they are also calling for some resignations -- Bill.
HEMMER: Dana, thanks.
"TIME" magazine takes an in-depth look this week at the search for banned weapons in Iraq. It is detailed, it is long and it is captivating. The article is called "Chasing a Mirage," co-written by "TIME's" Michael Ware. He joins us live now from Baghdad to talk about a few specifics contained in that article.
Thanks for your time here.
What do you believe, based on the experts you've talked to, what happened to the WMD before the end of the first Gulf War and the beginning of the second this past March?
MICHAEL WARE, "TIME" MAGAZINE: Well, after talking to dozens and dozens of Iraqi scientists, secret police officers, technicians, all sorts of people involved in the weapons program, they claim that the programs were wound down after the first Gulf War in a staggered period, leading up to about 1995. They say that this was done because Saddam thought he could get rid of the weapons inspectors very quickly in the early 1990s. But when they stuck around, when they remained dogged, and when his son-in-laws defected to Jordan giving up many of his best secrets, he figured that the game by and large must have been up.
HEMMER: Michael, why would you choose to believe these experts, knowing that they have tried to essentially deceive the world for the better part of a dozen years or more?
WARE: Well, it's very difficult to believe anything that we're told about weapons of mass destruction here in Iraq from either side. However, from these Iraqi scientists, what I have been able to confirm is they all tell the same story without fault. All of the top dogs of the Iraqi weapons program are now in U.S. detention. As Richard Butler says, we have all of the villains.
Now, if anyone was going to crack and give away the great secret hoards, we would have expected that would have happened by now. Plus, we know that many of these men had moved on to other fields. The U.N. examined them. They observed them very closely. And I've interviewed them in their former places of work and a number of their colleagues.
HEMMER: If this is all true, Michael, what's the incentive then for the scientists on behalf of Saddam Hussein to play this shell game with U.N. inspectors during the 1990s?
WARE: Well, if that was the case, that they were playing a shell game for whatever reason, be that to confuse the West and to bluff Saddam's neighbors, these scientists basically would have had no choice. These are men who did exactly what they were told to do. In the early '90s, when they were told to lie, when they were told to hide documents, that's what they did. Then, in 2002 when they say they were told tell the U.N. everything, show them anything you want, that's exactly what they did.
HEMMER: And also, Michael, there is a suggestion in this article in "TIME" magazine that says that even Saddam Hussein did not know which weapons he may or may not have had. Explain that for us. How is that possible?
WARE: Well, what happened is, Saddam had a large military industrial complex churning up all sorts of weapons for him. Before '91, it was conventional and unconventional weapons. Certainly, we can clearly establish that through sanction-busting he continued his conventional weapons manufacture through the '90s.
Now, he was prone to many scams and conmen in this process. He was so enamored with weapons, he would approve all sorts of projects, many of which or certainly a number of which didn't exist or were simply charades that were allowing senior officials to pocket the funding that was coming from the presidential office. To some degree, Saddam was lied to by his own people.
HEMMER: Michael Ware from "TIME" magazine live in Baghdad. You can read it today. It's out at newsstands, a captivating article, a lot of consideration given based on the interviews they've done there in Baghdad. Michael Ware, thanks for your time.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.
Aired September 29, 2003 - 07:05 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: To the White House now, where they say the best defense is a good offense. The Bush administration is striking back at critics who claim that faulty intelligence was used to launch the Iraq war back in March.
The furor also over the president's $87 billion request for Iraq and Afghanistan has not died down in Congress, critical questions this week.
Dana Bash kicks it off live from the Front Lawn this morning for us.
Good morning there.
DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Bill.
And that $87 billion is already going to be the subject of an impassioned debate in Congress. Congress will take it up this coming week, but it will no doubt be even more impassioned because of new questions about weapons of mass destruction and the intelligence that led up to the war in Iraq.
Jane Harmon, the Democratic ranking member of the House Intelligence Committee, and the intelligence chairman in the House have written a letter to the CIA, saying that some of the intelligence was circumstantial and fragmentary.
And the CIA yesterday said that they stand by their assessment, as does the secretary of state, who made the rounds on the talk shows, reminding everyone that Saddam Hussein used chemical weapons, like VX gas, against his own people.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: If you want to believe that he suddenly gave up that weapon and had no further interest in those sorts of weapons -- whether it be chemical, biological or nuclear -- then I think it's a bit naive to believe that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: But the administration has another issue coming up this week, and that is David Kay, the man who they have put in charge of looking for the weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, will be giving a report to Congress. He's expected to say that no weapons of mass destruction have been found. Bill, the administration says that this is just an interim report. It is not conclusive. And that he has miles and miles of documents to go, Iraqis to investigate and to interview. So, they still believe -- they still stand by the fact that weapons of mass destruction will be found eventually in Iraq -- Bill.
HEMMER: One more topic, quickly, Dana. The Justice Department is trying to find out who leaked information that revealed the identity of a CIA operative. The agent's husband blaming the President Bush advisor Karl Rove. The White House spokesman denying that. What's the latest on this on a Monday?
BASH: Well, the White House is still denying that anybody at the White House leaked the information, leaked the identity of that agent. Condoleezza Rice, the national security advisor, saying that the Justice Department is investigating, that the White House will cooperate, even if that means giving over some phone logs and other documentation.
But Democrats are saying that they want an independent investigation not by the Justice Department, and they are also calling for some resignations -- Bill.
HEMMER: Dana, thanks.
"TIME" magazine takes an in-depth look this week at the search for banned weapons in Iraq. It is detailed, it is long and it is captivating. The article is called "Chasing a Mirage," co-written by "TIME's" Michael Ware. He joins us live now from Baghdad to talk about a few specifics contained in that article.
Thanks for your time here.
What do you believe, based on the experts you've talked to, what happened to the WMD before the end of the first Gulf War and the beginning of the second this past March?
MICHAEL WARE, "TIME" MAGAZINE: Well, after talking to dozens and dozens of Iraqi scientists, secret police officers, technicians, all sorts of people involved in the weapons program, they claim that the programs were wound down after the first Gulf War in a staggered period, leading up to about 1995. They say that this was done because Saddam thought he could get rid of the weapons inspectors very quickly in the early 1990s. But when they stuck around, when they remained dogged, and when his son-in-laws defected to Jordan giving up many of his best secrets, he figured that the game by and large must have been up.
HEMMER: Michael, why would you choose to believe these experts, knowing that they have tried to essentially deceive the world for the better part of a dozen years or more?
WARE: Well, it's very difficult to believe anything that we're told about weapons of mass destruction here in Iraq from either side. However, from these Iraqi scientists, what I have been able to confirm is they all tell the same story without fault. All of the top dogs of the Iraqi weapons program are now in U.S. detention. As Richard Butler says, we have all of the villains.
Now, if anyone was going to crack and give away the great secret hoards, we would have expected that would have happened by now. Plus, we know that many of these men had moved on to other fields. The U.N. examined them. They observed them very closely. And I've interviewed them in their former places of work and a number of their colleagues.
HEMMER: If this is all true, Michael, what's the incentive then for the scientists on behalf of Saddam Hussein to play this shell game with U.N. inspectors during the 1990s?
WARE: Well, if that was the case, that they were playing a shell game for whatever reason, be that to confuse the West and to bluff Saddam's neighbors, these scientists basically would have had no choice. These are men who did exactly what they were told to do. In the early '90s, when they were told to lie, when they were told to hide documents, that's what they did. Then, in 2002 when they say they were told tell the U.N. everything, show them anything you want, that's exactly what they did.
HEMMER: And also, Michael, there is a suggestion in this article in "TIME" magazine that says that even Saddam Hussein did not know which weapons he may or may not have had. Explain that for us. How is that possible?
WARE: Well, what happened is, Saddam had a large military industrial complex churning up all sorts of weapons for him. Before '91, it was conventional and unconventional weapons. Certainly, we can clearly establish that through sanction-busting he continued his conventional weapons manufacture through the '90s.
Now, he was prone to many scams and conmen in this process. He was so enamored with weapons, he would approve all sorts of projects, many of which or certainly a number of which didn't exist or were simply charades that were allowing senior officials to pocket the funding that was coming from the presidential office. To some degree, Saddam was lied to by his own people.
HEMMER: Michael Ware from "TIME" magazine live in Baghdad. You can read it today. It's out at newsstands, a captivating article, a lot of consideration given based on the interviews they've done there in Baghdad. Michael Ware, thanks for your time.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.
