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American Morning
White House Says It Will Cooperate With Inquiry From Justice Department
Aired September 30, 2003 - 08:04 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Back to that controversy over the leaked identity of a CIA employee. The White House says it will cooperate with an inquiry from the Justice Department. "Chicago Sun- Times" columnist and "CROSSFIRE" co-host Robert Novak revealed the identity of the operative back in a column in July. Novak says the information was not leaked to him by the White House. Wilson, though, not backing down that his belief says it was.
Here's what the two had to say as of yesterday on this matter.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERT NOVAK, "CHICAGO SUN-TIMES"/CO-HOST, CNN'S CROSSFIRE: Nobody in the Bush administration called me to leak this. In July I was interviewing a senior administration official on Ambassador Wilson's report when he told me the trip was inspired by his wife, a CIA employee working on weapons of mass destruction.
JOE WILSON, FORMER U.S. DEPUTY AMBASSADOR TO IRAQ: The outing of my wife was obviously a political or a communications move.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: So, again, those are the statements from yesterday.
Today from the White House, here's Dana Bash -- Dana, what are we saying now on a Tuesday morning?
DANA BASH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Bill, it's that kind of criticism from Ambassador Wilson that prompted four senior Senate Democrats to write the president and attorney general, saying that what is needed now is a special prosecutor, somebody independent to look into the matter. Democratic presidential candidates are also putting the pressure on, as well.
But the White House is rejecting that, saying the Justice Department at this point is independent enough. And for now they have also rejected the idea of an internal investigation to be launched here at the White House.
Spokesman Scott McClellan said, nevertheless, the president does take this matter very seriously.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCOTT MCCLELLAN, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The president has set high standards, the highest of standards for people in his administration. He's made it very clear to people in his administration that he expects them to adhere to the highest standards of conduct. If anyone in this administration was involved in it, they would no longer be in this administration.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: McClellan said that the president believes anybody involved should be prosecuted to the fullest extent and right now that is where this matter is. It is at the Justice Department. The attorney general is deciding whether or not the initial inquiry will be turned into a full blown investigation -- Bill.
HEMMER: Dana, thanks.
Dana Bash from the White House.
Richard Thornburgh was the attorney general under the first President Bush.
He's with us now from Washington for his take on this matter.
Good to see you again.
Good morning to you.
RICHARD THORNBURGH, FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL: Good morning, Bill.
HEMMER: How do you see this right now?
THORNBURGH: Well, it's obviously a serious matter if a covert agent's identity is disclosed. It's been made a criminal offense and subject to heavy fine and imprisonment.
On the other hand, these leak investigations are notoriously unproductive. Go back to Watergate and the Deep Throat phenomenon and the fact is that there are only two people who can testify as to the source of the leak. One is the person who leaked the information, the other is the journalist who reported it. And for obvious reasons neither of them are going to testify and it makes it extremely difficult for agents to carry out an investigation that will identify the source.
HEMMER: Help me understand something within the CIA. Robert Novak says this woman was an analyst. We have described her as an operative. What is the difference between an analyst or an operative when it comes to being a CIA agent? Is there much of a difference?
THORNBURGH: Well, that's one of the troublesome aspects of this situation and we don't know the answer as to what this woman's status was. Was she a covert agent with a network of operatives, the disclosure of which would obviously place her and her operatives in great jeopardy? Or was she merely an analyst of information regarding weapons of mass destruction, as Mr. Novak says?
The matter may not rise to the level of a criminal offense if the latter is the case. But, again, we'll have to wait and see what the investigation uncovers.
HEMMER: And at this point, based on the facts that we know, can we say whether or not lives were put at risk with her identity being revealed back on the 14th of July?
THORNBURGH: No. I don't think we can say that until we determine precisely what her status and duties and responsibilities were in her tenure at the CIA.
HEMMER: OK, knowing about an investigation right now, I know your comment two answers ago about an independent investigation in the past, you've said, has been a waste of money. What is the proper course of the investigation, then, in your estimation?
THORNBURGH: I think for the moment the matter has to be left in the hands of the Department of Justice. Career professionals there handle these kinds of investigations all too regularly, I must say. We no longer have, for good reason, an independent counsel statute, and I think that the attorney general has authority if there's any conflict that develops in the course of the investigation, to appoint an outside counsel.
But for the moment, I think we ought to be leaving this in the hands of the career professionals at the Department of Justice, whose full-time job is to carry out these kinds of investigations.
HEMMER: One more question for you, then. Knowing the facts that are out there right now, the name is printed back in July, someone at the CIA apparently received a phone call from Bob Novak, as he describes it, and was given the name of this woman, the wife of Joe Wilson.
You've been around D.C. a long time. Is this politics at work here or is there much more to it that calls it a serious matter?
THORNBURGH: Well, certainly in a pre-election year there's bound to be a political tinge to most everything that's on the top of the news. But clearly if there is a serious threat to U.S. intelligence operations or to individuals involved in those intelligence operations, it's much more than just politics. And that's what the investigation is going to uncover.
One of the unanswered questions, of course, is this was published in July 14, nearly two and a half months ago, and I think there's no indication what's been done since then and what may have, what steps may have been taken to uncover this. And as in most of these investigative matters, we're just going to have to wait and see.
HEMMER: We'll leave it at that.
Thank you.
Good to see you again.
Richard Thornburgh in Washington.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Justice Department>
Aired September 30, 2003 - 08:04 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Back to that controversy over the leaked identity of a CIA employee. The White House says it will cooperate with an inquiry from the Justice Department. "Chicago Sun- Times" columnist and "CROSSFIRE" co-host Robert Novak revealed the identity of the operative back in a column in July. Novak says the information was not leaked to him by the White House. Wilson, though, not backing down that his belief says it was.
Here's what the two had to say as of yesterday on this matter.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERT NOVAK, "CHICAGO SUN-TIMES"/CO-HOST, CNN'S CROSSFIRE: Nobody in the Bush administration called me to leak this. In July I was interviewing a senior administration official on Ambassador Wilson's report when he told me the trip was inspired by his wife, a CIA employee working on weapons of mass destruction.
JOE WILSON, FORMER U.S. DEPUTY AMBASSADOR TO IRAQ: The outing of my wife was obviously a political or a communications move.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: So, again, those are the statements from yesterday.
Today from the White House, here's Dana Bash -- Dana, what are we saying now on a Tuesday morning?
DANA BASH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Bill, it's that kind of criticism from Ambassador Wilson that prompted four senior Senate Democrats to write the president and attorney general, saying that what is needed now is a special prosecutor, somebody independent to look into the matter. Democratic presidential candidates are also putting the pressure on, as well.
But the White House is rejecting that, saying the Justice Department at this point is independent enough. And for now they have also rejected the idea of an internal investigation to be launched here at the White House.
Spokesman Scott McClellan said, nevertheless, the president does take this matter very seriously.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCOTT MCCLELLAN, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The president has set high standards, the highest of standards for people in his administration. He's made it very clear to people in his administration that he expects them to adhere to the highest standards of conduct. If anyone in this administration was involved in it, they would no longer be in this administration.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: McClellan said that the president believes anybody involved should be prosecuted to the fullest extent and right now that is where this matter is. It is at the Justice Department. The attorney general is deciding whether or not the initial inquiry will be turned into a full blown investigation -- Bill.
HEMMER: Dana, thanks.
Dana Bash from the White House.
Richard Thornburgh was the attorney general under the first President Bush.
He's with us now from Washington for his take on this matter.
Good to see you again.
Good morning to you.
RICHARD THORNBURGH, FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL: Good morning, Bill.
HEMMER: How do you see this right now?
THORNBURGH: Well, it's obviously a serious matter if a covert agent's identity is disclosed. It's been made a criminal offense and subject to heavy fine and imprisonment.
On the other hand, these leak investigations are notoriously unproductive. Go back to Watergate and the Deep Throat phenomenon and the fact is that there are only two people who can testify as to the source of the leak. One is the person who leaked the information, the other is the journalist who reported it. And for obvious reasons neither of them are going to testify and it makes it extremely difficult for agents to carry out an investigation that will identify the source.
HEMMER: Help me understand something within the CIA. Robert Novak says this woman was an analyst. We have described her as an operative. What is the difference between an analyst or an operative when it comes to being a CIA agent? Is there much of a difference?
THORNBURGH: Well, that's one of the troublesome aspects of this situation and we don't know the answer as to what this woman's status was. Was she a covert agent with a network of operatives, the disclosure of which would obviously place her and her operatives in great jeopardy? Or was she merely an analyst of information regarding weapons of mass destruction, as Mr. Novak says?
The matter may not rise to the level of a criminal offense if the latter is the case. But, again, we'll have to wait and see what the investigation uncovers.
HEMMER: And at this point, based on the facts that we know, can we say whether or not lives were put at risk with her identity being revealed back on the 14th of July?
THORNBURGH: No. I don't think we can say that until we determine precisely what her status and duties and responsibilities were in her tenure at the CIA.
HEMMER: OK, knowing about an investigation right now, I know your comment two answers ago about an independent investigation in the past, you've said, has been a waste of money. What is the proper course of the investigation, then, in your estimation?
THORNBURGH: I think for the moment the matter has to be left in the hands of the Department of Justice. Career professionals there handle these kinds of investigations all too regularly, I must say. We no longer have, for good reason, an independent counsel statute, and I think that the attorney general has authority if there's any conflict that develops in the course of the investigation, to appoint an outside counsel.
But for the moment, I think we ought to be leaving this in the hands of the career professionals at the Department of Justice, whose full-time job is to carry out these kinds of investigations.
HEMMER: One more question for you, then. Knowing the facts that are out there right now, the name is printed back in July, someone at the CIA apparently received a phone call from Bob Novak, as he describes it, and was given the name of this woman, the wife of Joe Wilson.
You've been around D.C. a long time. Is this politics at work here or is there much more to it that calls it a serious matter?
THORNBURGH: Well, certainly in a pre-election year there's bound to be a political tinge to most everything that's on the top of the news. But clearly if there is a serious threat to U.S. intelligence operations or to individuals involved in those intelligence operations, it's much more than just politics. And that's what the investigation is going to uncover.
One of the unanswered questions, of course, is this was published in July 14, nearly two and a half months ago, and I think there's no indication what's been done since then and what may have, what steps may have been taken to uncover this. And as in most of these investigative matters, we're just going to have to wait and see.
HEMMER: We'll leave it at that.
Thank you.
Good to see you again.
Richard Thornburgh in Washington.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Justice Department>
