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American Morning

CIA Leak Investigation

Aired October 06, 2003 - 07:10   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: A former diplomat whose wife was revealed to be a CIA operative says he is concerned about their personal security. A criminal investigation is under way to find out who leaked the name of Ambassador Joseph Wilson's wife.
What kind of danger does it pose to operatives and agents when their covers are blown?

Joining us this morning from Detroit is former CIA case officer Jim Marcinkowski, who has trained with Wilson's wife back in 1985.

Good morning. It's nice to have you. Thanks for joining us.

JIM MARCINKOWSKI, FORMER CIA CASE OFFICER: Good morning. Pleasure to be with you.

O'BRIEN: Thank you very much.

I want to clear up some confusion, because I have heard Ambassador Wilson's wife been called an analyst, an operative, an agent, that she was not an OC, nonofficial cover, that in fact she was undercover. Can you clarify for us what those various things mean, and actually what role she was playing within the CIA?

MARCINKOWSKI: Well, obviously cover can be of the type and variety, depending on what your job may be within the agency itself. The real issue here, however, is that the cover was blown. Whether it was light cover, whether it was heavy cover, whether it was not official cover is really irrelevant to the issue that the cover, whatever it may have been, has been blown and the agent has been exposed.

If I can give you an example. A simple example that people could understand would be if you were an American tourist traveling to South America, for example, if you were abducted by a group of leftists that were going to hold you for ransom, I am sure that you would dispose of your American passport and become a Canadian citizen just to protect yourself. The bottom line being there is a high priority for Americans overseas. It's a dangerous place to be overseas just being an American. Being a CIA employee is much more dangerous, obviously.

O'BRIEN: So, then, to what degree is she now at greater risk now that her cover's been blown?

MARCINKOWSKI: She's at a huge risk. The significance of what happened just recently with her exposure has been, for the very first time in history that I know of, a CIA employee has been officially exposed by the federal government, and that's the problem. When you travel overseas, you have a number of different covers for whatever action you may have that gives you plausible deniability to deny that you're working on behalf of the CIA or the United States government. And there's only one entity out there that can, in fact, confirm your employment. That is the United States government.

And in this case, that's exactly what happened. That's why it's so dangerous. That's why this is a huge precedent. That's why this can't go unnoticed and there should be a reaction by the government to whoever leaked this information.

O'BRIEN: To what degree are her contacts overseas at risk? And I don't mean the contacts necessarily that she was getting valuable, political or other information from, but even just people she knew in a casual context overseas.

MARCINKOWSKI: And that's exactly correct. CIA operatives overseas carry on a normal life. They come in contact with everyone from the gardener to other diplomats in the social circuit.

The problem is, once someone is exposed, after having spent a number of years with the agency, is that a hostile intelligence service, or any intelligence service for that matter, will go back, look at the contacts this person has made over those years. And they'll start scrutinizing those persons, subjecting them to interrogation, to suspicion, to scrutiny, perhaps imprisonment, depending on the country and the regime that they may be living under. And the people may be innocent.

So, in this kind of a situation, you're actually endangering innocent people, as well as those voluntarily who took the risk to work on behalf of the United States.

O'BRIEN: Potentially a huge fallout ahead. Jim Marcinkowski, I thank you for joining us. We certainly appreciate your time and your insight this morning.

MARCINKOWSKI: You're very welcome.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.







Aired October 6, 2003 - 07:10   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: A former diplomat whose wife was revealed to be a CIA operative says he is concerned about their personal security. A criminal investigation is under way to find out who leaked the name of Ambassador Joseph Wilson's wife.
What kind of danger does it pose to operatives and agents when their covers are blown?

Joining us this morning from Detroit is former CIA case officer Jim Marcinkowski, who has trained with Wilson's wife back in 1985.

Good morning. It's nice to have you. Thanks for joining us.

JIM MARCINKOWSKI, FORMER CIA CASE OFFICER: Good morning. Pleasure to be with you.

O'BRIEN: Thank you very much.

I want to clear up some confusion, because I have heard Ambassador Wilson's wife been called an analyst, an operative, an agent, that she was not an OC, nonofficial cover, that in fact she was undercover. Can you clarify for us what those various things mean, and actually what role she was playing within the CIA?

MARCINKOWSKI: Well, obviously cover can be of the type and variety, depending on what your job may be within the agency itself. The real issue here, however, is that the cover was blown. Whether it was light cover, whether it was heavy cover, whether it was not official cover is really irrelevant to the issue that the cover, whatever it may have been, has been blown and the agent has been exposed.

If I can give you an example. A simple example that people could understand would be if you were an American tourist traveling to South America, for example, if you were abducted by a group of leftists that were going to hold you for ransom, I am sure that you would dispose of your American passport and become a Canadian citizen just to protect yourself. The bottom line being there is a high priority for Americans overseas. It's a dangerous place to be overseas just being an American. Being a CIA employee is much more dangerous, obviously.

O'BRIEN: So, then, to what degree is she now at greater risk now that her cover's been blown?

MARCINKOWSKI: She's at a huge risk. The significance of what happened just recently with her exposure has been, for the very first time in history that I know of, a CIA employee has been officially exposed by the federal government, and that's the problem. When you travel overseas, you have a number of different covers for whatever action you may have that gives you plausible deniability to deny that you're working on behalf of the CIA or the United States government. And there's only one entity out there that can, in fact, confirm your employment. That is the United States government.

And in this case, that's exactly what happened. That's why it's so dangerous. That's why this is a huge precedent. That's why this can't go unnoticed and there should be a reaction by the government to whoever leaked this information.

O'BRIEN: To what degree are her contacts overseas at risk? And I don't mean the contacts necessarily that she was getting valuable, political or other information from, but even just people she knew in a casual context overseas.

MARCINKOWSKI: And that's exactly correct. CIA operatives overseas carry on a normal life. They come in contact with everyone from the gardener to other diplomats in the social circuit.

The problem is, once someone is exposed, after having spent a number of years with the agency, is that a hostile intelligence service, or any intelligence service for that matter, will go back, look at the contacts this person has made over those years. And they'll start scrutinizing those persons, subjecting them to interrogation, to suspicion, to scrutiny, perhaps imprisonment, depending on the country and the regime that they may be living under. And the people may be innocent.

So, in this kind of a situation, you're actually endangering innocent people, as well as those voluntarily who took the risk to work on behalf of the United States.

O'BRIEN: Potentially a huge fallout ahead. Jim Marcinkowski, I thank you for joining us. We certainly appreciate your time and your insight this morning.

MARCINKOWSKI: You're very welcome.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.