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American Morning

Sniper Suspect Trial Begins Today

Aired October 20, 2003 - 07:05   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Let's turn now to the first trial of a suspect in the D.C.-area sniper killings. John Allen Muhammad is accused of murdering 53-year-old Dean Meyers in Manassas, Virginia, just over a year ago. If he is convicted, Muhammad could face the death penalty.
Opening statements are slated to begin later today, and CNN's Jeanne Meserve is live for us from Virginia Beach this morning.

Jeanne -- good morning.

JEANNE MESERVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Soledad.

There were 13 sniper slayings, and evidence about many of them will be introduced at this trial, but one is central.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MESERVE (voice-over): At this gas station on October 9th, 2002, Dean Meyers was filling his tank. J.R. Raymaker was working the cash register.

J.R. RAYMAKER, SERVICE STATION ATTENDANT: I was standing right here, and we heard, like, poof, like a shot or something.

MESERVE: Meyers lay dead by the pump, the seventh killed by the Washington sniper. No one saw John Muhammad at this shooting scene or any other in the Washington area. He has never confessed to any of the murders.

Prosecutors say the case is circumstantial. That does not mean it's weak.

TODD SANDERS, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Fingerprints, hair samples, DNA, ballistics evidence -- that evidence is clear cut. It stays the same from the time the crime was committed until the trial starts.

MESERVE: The strongest piece of evidence in this case is the Bushmaster rifle, found with Muhammad and Malvo at the time of their arrest, and linked through ballistics testing, like this, with Meyers' murder and other D.C. sniper slayings. The Chevy Caprice in which they were found had a sniper perch and firing port in the trunk. Inside, a wealth of other evidence.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The window broke and shots came in.

MESERVE: A laptop stolen from an earlier shooting victim. On it, law enforcement sources say maps and notations about past and apparently planned shootings -- some locations marked with a skull and crossbones and smiley faces. Also in the Caprice, a global positioning device, walkie-talkies and a tape recorder -- all alleged to have been used in the crimes.

HANK ASBILL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think it's also highly incriminating. The real question is: Is who is it incriminating of? Both of the people in the car, only Muhammad, only Malvo or some third or fourth persons that may have been in the car?

MESERVE: There is more. At the restaurant across the street from the Meyers shooting, investigators found a map with Muhammad and Malvo's fingerprints on it. And the police chief of Montgomery, Alabama, says witnesses can place both Malvo and Muhammad at a shooting there before the Washington spree.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

Defense attorneys watching the case say if they were representing Muhammad, they would try to undermine the credibility of the forensic evidence and create opportunities for appeal. They also would underline repeatedly that no one saw John Muhammad commit the crimes.

Soledad -- back to you.

O'BRIEN: Jeanne, a quick question for you. What happens today in the courtroom?

MESERVE: Well, there may be a motion heard, which has to do with the introduction of some mental health evidence. Then, we do expect the opening statements. We may hear for the time, hear the defense lay out exactly what their strategy for defense is going to be.

Lee Malvo, we know, has been transported here to Virginia Beach. He's expected to make an appearance sometime in the next few days, probably for identification purposes. In addition, there will be 24 members of the media present, five members of the public who won a lottery, and also the family of Dean Meyers -- Soledad.

CNN's Jeanne Meserve for us this morning. Jeanne, thanks.

So, will Muhammad's defense strategy be to argue against death rather than for his innocence in his murder trial?

CNN's legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin joins with us that. And we're also going to chat a little bit about the Kobe Bryant case as well.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Howdy.

O'BRIEN: Get a little twofer out of you. Good morning. Nice to see you.

TOOBIN: Thank you.

O'BRIEN: As we move into this trial, do you think that the defense attorneys are going to try this case with an eye toward his sentencing?

TOOBIN: You see, this is what's always so complicated about death penalty cases for the defense is that the same jury decides guilt and then decides the penalty. So, you have to worry about offending the jury in the guilt phase, because that same jury may consider the death penalty.

O'BRIEN: What do you mean by offending the jury?

TOOBIN: Well, to offend the jury is if you make an argument that is so completely implausible, if you make an argument that somehow just offends their common sense in the guilt phase, they may not take seriously the arguments you make in the penalty phase.

So, what happens in cases like this, where the evidence does seem to be extremely strong? The phrase lawyers sometimes use is "plead guilty slowly," in a sense, develop a theory for the penalty phase in the course of the trial, which is, for example, you don't know who really fired these shots. You don't know for sure how these crimes unfolded. So, even if you believe that Muhammad was involved and he was guilty, you don't feel strongly enough about the case to find that he should be executed.

O'BRIEN: Can we turn and talk about the Kobe Bryant case now?

TOOBIN: Sure.

O'BRIEN: The hearing was to decide if this should go to trial at all.

TOOBIN: Right.

O'BRIEN: Is there anything that you heard in your time of watching the hearing so far that would have you say, not enough evidence to go to trial?

TOOBIN: No, I think given the very low standard, which is just probable cause, there is undoubtedly that standard has been met by the prosecution. However, last Wednesday in court, the defense really did a very good job of poking holes in the prosecution's case, laying the groundwork for a defense at trial, which could be very powerful.

O'BRIEN: Is that unusual to see such an aggressive defense or to see so much evidence presented at a hearing like this.

TOOBIN: Not really. I mean, this is unusual, because there was a lot of playing to people like us, to the news media, because there's going to be so much reporting. They knew there was going to be so much reporting on this.

But when you talk about, you know, the failure of the first witness who saw the victim, didn't see anything wrong with her, the mysterious nature of the forensic evidence on the underwear which is not consistent necessarily with the accuser's story, all of that is useful evidence for the trial. It really doesn't affect the probable cause decision, and I expect Judge Gannett today to order the case bound over for a full-fledged trial.

O'BRIEN: Which side is ahead at this point? Or, once the hearing is decided -- and let's assume it goes to trial -- does it sort of reset, all start at zero again?

TOOBIN: It all starts at zero, particularly because the accuser has never testified. She is going to be the key witness, and we really don't know how credible she is.

O'BRIEN: All right, Jeffrey Toobin, thanks, as always.

TOOBIN: See you later.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.






Aired October 20, 2003 - 07:05   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Let's turn now to the first trial of a suspect in the D.C.-area sniper killings. John Allen Muhammad is accused of murdering 53-year-old Dean Meyers in Manassas, Virginia, just over a year ago. If he is convicted, Muhammad could face the death penalty.
Opening statements are slated to begin later today, and CNN's Jeanne Meserve is live for us from Virginia Beach this morning.

Jeanne -- good morning.

JEANNE MESERVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Soledad.

There were 13 sniper slayings, and evidence about many of them will be introduced at this trial, but one is central.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MESERVE (voice-over): At this gas station on October 9th, 2002, Dean Meyers was filling his tank. J.R. Raymaker was working the cash register.

J.R. RAYMAKER, SERVICE STATION ATTENDANT: I was standing right here, and we heard, like, poof, like a shot or something.

MESERVE: Meyers lay dead by the pump, the seventh killed by the Washington sniper. No one saw John Muhammad at this shooting scene or any other in the Washington area. He has never confessed to any of the murders.

Prosecutors say the case is circumstantial. That does not mean it's weak.

TODD SANDERS, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Fingerprints, hair samples, DNA, ballistics evidence -- that evidence is clear cut. It stays the same from the time the crime was committed until the trial starts.

MESERVE: The strongest piece of evidence in this case is the Bushmaster rifle, found with Muhammad and Malvo at the time of their arrest, and linked through ballistics testing, like this, with Meyers' murder and other D.C. sniper slayings. The Chevy Caprice in which they were found had a sniper perch and firing port in the trunk. Inside, a wealth of other evidence.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The window broke and shots came in.

MESERVE: A laptop stolen from an earlier shooting victim. On it, law enforcement sources say maps and notations about past and apparently planned shootings -- some locations marked with a skull and crossbones and smiley faces. Also in the Caprice, a global positioning device, walkie-talkies and a tape recorder -- all alleged to have been used in the crimes.

HANK ASBILL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think it's also highly incriminating. The real question is: Is who is it incriminating of? Both of the people in the car, only Muhammad, only Malvo or some third or fourth persons that may have been in the car?

MESERVE: There is more. At the restaurant across the street from the Meyers shooting, investigators found a map with Muhammad and Malvo's fingerprints on it. And the police chief of Montgomery, Alabama, says witnesses can place both Malvo and Muhammad at a shooting there before the Washington spree.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

Defense attorneys watching the case say if they were representing Muhammad, they would try to undermine the credibility of the forensic evidence and create opportunities for appeal. They also would underline repeatedly that no one saw John Muhammad commit the crimes.

Soledad -- back to you.

O'BRIEN: Jeanne, a quick question for you. What happens today in the courtroom?

MESERVE: Well, there may be a motion heard, which has to do with the introduction of some mental health evidence. Then, we do expect the opening statements. We may hear for the time, hear the defense lay out exactly what their strategy for defense is going to be.

Lee Malvo, we know, has been transported here to Virginia Beach. He's expected to make an appearance sometime in the next few days, probably for identification purposes. In addition, there will be 24 members of the media present, five members of the public who won a lottery, and also the family of Dean Meyers -- Soledad.

CNN's Jeanne Meserve for us this morning. Jeanne, thanks.

So, will Muhammad's defense strategy be to argue against death rather than for his innocence in his murder trial?

CNN's legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin joins with us that. And we're also going to chat a little bit about the Kobe Bryant case as well.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Howdy.

O'BRIEN: Get a little twofer out of you. Good morning. Nice to see you.

TOOBIN: Thank you.

O'BRIEN: As we move into this trial, do you think that the defense attorneys are going to try this case with an eye toward his sentencing?

TOOBIN: You see, this is what's always so complicated about death penalty cases for the defense is that the same jury decides guilt and then decides the penalty. So, you have to worry about offending the jury in the guilt phase, because that same jury may consider the death penalty.

O'BRIEN: What do you mean by offending the jury?

TOOBIN: Well, to offend the jury is if you make an argument that is so completely implausible, if you make an argument that somehow just offends their common sense in the guilt phase, they may not take seriously the arguments you make in the penalty phase.

So, what happens in cases like this, where the evidence does seem to be extremely strong? The phrase lawyers sometimes use is "plead guilty slowly," in a sense, develop a theory for the penalty phase in the course of the trial, which is, for example, you don't know who really fired these shots. You don't know for sure how these crimes unfolded. So, even if you believe that Muhammad was involved and he was guilty, you don't feel strongly enough about the case to find that he should be executed.

O'BRIEN: Can we turn and talk about the Kobe Bryant case now?

TOOBIN: Sure.

O'BRIEN: The hearing was to decide if this should go to trial at all.

TOOBIN: Right.

O'BRIEN: Is there anything that you heard in your time of watching the hearing so far that would have you say, not enough evidence to go to trial?

TOOBIN: No, I think given the very low standard, which is just probable cause, there is undoubtedly that standard has been met by the prosecution. However, last Wednesday in court, the defense really did a very good job of poking holes in the prosecution's case, laying the groundwork for a defense at trial, which could be very powerful.

O'BRIEN: Is that unusual to see such an aggressive defense or to see so much evidence presented at a hearing like this.

TOOBIN: Not really. I mean, this is unusual, because there was a lot of playing to people like us, to the news media, because there's going to be so much reporting. They knew there was going to be so much reporting on this.

But when you talk about, you know, the failure of the first witness who saw the victim, didn't see anything wrong with her, the mysterious nature of the forensic evidence on the underwear which is not consistent necessarily with the accuser's story, all of that is useful evidence for the trial. It really doesn't affect the probable cause decision, and I expect Judge Gannett today to order the case bound over for a full-fledged trial.

O'BRIEN: Which side is ahead at this point? Or, once the hearing is decided -- and let's assume it goes to trial -- does it sort of reset, all start at zero again?

TOOBIN: It all starts at zero, particularly because the accuser has never testified. She is going to be the key witness, and we really don't know how credible she is.

O'BRIEN: All right, Jeffrey Toobin, thanks, as always.

TOOBIN: See you later.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.