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American Morning

Air Security Breach

Aired October 21, 2003 - 09:10   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: The college student who is charged with carrying a concealed weapon aboard an aircraft says he did it to prove a point about airline security. That is according to an FBI affidavit in the case of Nathaniel Heatwole. The affidavit says that he sent e-mails to the Transportation Security Administration alerting it to box cutters and other items on four airliners. But just how were those dangerous items carried on board the planes, and what does it say about the state of airline security?
Joining us this morning is the northeast regional spokesman for the TSA, Mark Hatfield.

Nice to see you. Good morning.

Let's begin with the investigation. Where does it stand right now? Is Nathaniel Heatwole being cooperative with the investigators?

MARK HATFIELD, TSA NORTHEAST SPOKESMAN: Well, I'd have to defer to the investigators of the FBI to give you specifics on that. But it appears that he's providing them information about his activities, and they certainly have the e-mail that the TSA was able to retrieve and provide the investigators with, which also outlines in some detail the activities in which Mr. Heatwole was able to get past security with some of these items.

O'BRIEN: Can you elaborate on that for us? Can you tell us how he got, box cutters, et cetera, on the airplanes?

HATFIELD: Well, let me address it in this way. What Mr. Heatwole's actions have done is illuminate or put light again on a subject that the TSA has spent over a year testifying on before Congress, in the media and other public forums, and that is the fact that our passenger screening layer of the security system has limitations. One of the big differences that have you now compared to the pre-9/11 era is that we no longer look at passenger screening at the beginning and end of security. It's just one layers. So we've gone beyond the screening checkpoints at security layers. We've looked at positions in advance of the checkpoint where security plays a role, and we have been very vocal about what the limitations of screening are.

Think also about the old system where guns, and bowie knives and grenades were essentially what screeners were looking for, items that had a pound or two of metal in them. Now we're looking for grams of metal, that would be contained in a razor blade or a cutting object.

O'BRIEN: So then are you saying that you can't keep box cutters from coming into the airport?

HATFIELD: I'll tell you, we've intercepted 2,000 box cutters since we stood up the organization. We've intercepted 8 million other prohibited items, which include 2 million knives and 1,500 guns. So the system is better than it ever has been. The technology we're using has improved. The training is better, the personnel are better, but there are limitations, practical limitations, as to what you can expect from that layer of the security system.

O'BRIEN: When you hear Nathaniel Heatwole say he did it to prove a point, what is your reaction that? Are you saying, hey, thanks, Nathaniel, appreciate it.

HATFIELD: Well, I'll tell you, one thing we learned was that the way he communicated to us with his e-mail was through a customer contact center that was set up to take complaints, and compliments and questions from tens of thousands of flying public members every month. And what that system failed to do was pop that e-mail forward for further action. So we've taken steps just over this past weekend since the discoveries in New Orleans and Houston were brought to our attention, and we've made the system -- we've programmed it so that it will automatically flag communications like this and bring them to the attention of law enforcement personnel who can interpret and take proper action.

O'BRIEN: Do you understand the frustration of the flying public, wait in big lines, take off your shoes and you go through, and then you get a sense here is a 20 year-old student, who is not backed by any terror organization, who really, outside of what he's said so far, doesn't seem to have any real impetus to go and do something on a plane. It seems like he pretty easily, he got on the planes with something dangerous.

HATFIELD: Well, I wouldn't underestimate any individual based on their age. And the fact is the general public does enjoy a greater sense of confidence and security, and they should be able to continue to enjoy that feeling because it's deserved. The TSA security system has gone from the curbside to the cockpit and introduced layer after layer of security that includes reinforcing cockpit doors and adding thousands of air marshals to the force, training pilots to carry and defend the -- carry guns and defend the cockpit.

But most importantly, let's look at the situation, the environment that we are we're in now. The box cutter was the weapon of choice on 9/11. But I would submit to you it is no longer as valuable a weapon on board an aircraft as it used to be. Take recent incidents where passengers themselves have risen up and taken control. I don't think that a box cutter poses the threat that it's used to. It's still a prohibited item. Our goal is to keep everyone off the aircraft.

O'BRIEN: Mark Hatfield, nice to have you. Thanks so much, from the TSA. I appreciate it.

HATFIELD: Thanks very much.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired October 21, 2003 - 09:10   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: The college student who is charged with carrying a concealed weapon aboard an aircraft says he did it to prove a point about airline security. That is according to an FBI affidavit in the case of Nathaniel Heatwole. The affidavit says that he sent e-mails to the Transportation Security Administration alerting it to box cutters and other items on four airliners. But just how were those dangerous items carried on board the planes, and what does it say about the state of airline security?
Joining us this morning is the northeast regional spokesman for the TSA, Mark Hatfield.

Nice to see you. Good morning.

Let's begin with the investigation. Where does it stand right now? Is Nathaniel Heatwole being cooperative with the investigators?

MARK HATFIELD, TSA NORTHEAST SPOKESMAN: Well, I'd have to defer to the investigators of the FBI to give you specifics on that. But it appears that he's providing them information about his activities, and they certainly have the e-mail that the TSA was able to retrieve and provide the investigators with, which also outlines in some detail the activities in which Mr. Heatwole was able to get past security with some of these items.

O'BRIEN: Can you elaborate on that for us? Can you tell us how he got, box cutters, et cetera, on the airplanes?

HATFIELD: Well, let me address it in this way. What Mr. Heatwole's actions have done is illuminate or put light again on a subject that the TSA has spent over a year testifying on before Congress, in the media and other public forums, and that is the fact that our passenger screening layer of the security system has limitations. One of the big differences that have you now compared to the pre-9/11 era is that we no longer look at passenger screening at the beginning and end of security. It's just one layers. So we've gone beyond the screening checkpoints at security layers. We've looked at positions in advance of the checkpoint where security plays a role, and we have been very vocal about what the limitations of screening are.

Think also about the old system where guns, and bowie knives and grenades were essentially what screeners were looking for, items that had a pound or two of metal in them. Now we're looking for grams of metal, that would be contained in a razor blade or a cutting object.

O'BRIEN: So then are you saying that you can't keep box cutters from coming into the airport?

HATFIELD: I'll tell you, we've intercepted 2,000 box cutters since we stood up the organization. We've intercepted 8 million other prohibited items, which include 2 million knives and 1,500 guns. So the system is better than it ever has been. The technology we're using has improved. The training is better, the personnel are better, but there are limitations, practical limitations, as to what you can expect from that layer of the security system.

O'BRIEN: When you hear Nathaniel Heatwole say he did it to prove a point, what is your reaction that? Are you saying, hey, thanks, Nathaniel, appreciate it.

HATFIELD: Well, I'll tell you, one thing we learned was that the way he communicated to us with his e-mail was through a customer contact center that was set up to take complaints, and compliments and questions from tens of thousands of flying public members every month. And what that system failed to do was pop that e-mail forward for further action. So we've taken steps just over this past weekend since the discoveries in New Orleans and Houston were brought to our attention, and we've made the system -- we've programmed it so that it will automatically flag communications like this and bring them to the attention of law enforcement personnel who can interpret and take proper action.

O'BRIEN: Do you understand the frustration of the flying public, wait in big lines, take off your shoes and you go through, and then you get a sense here is a 20 year-old student, who is not backed by any terror organization, who really, outside of what he's said so far, doesn't seem to have any real impetus to go and do something on a plane. It seems like he pretty easily, he got on the planes with something dangerous.

HATFIELD: Well, I wouldn't underestimate any individual based on their age. And the fact is the general public does enjoy a greater sense of confidence and security, and they should be able to continue to enjoy that feeling because it's deserved. The TSA security system has gone from the curbside to the cockpit and introduced layer after layer of security that includes reinforcing cockpit doors and adding thousands of air marshals to the force, training pilots to carry and defend the -- carry guns and defend the cockpit.

But most importantly, let's look at the situation, the environment that we are we're in now. The box cutter was the weapon of choice on 9/11. But I would submit to you it is no longer as valuable a weapon on board an aircraft as it used to be. Take recent incidents where passengers themselves have risen up and taken control. I don't think that a box cutter poses the threat that it's used to. It's still a prohibited item. Our goal is to keep everyone off the aircraft.

O'BRIEN: Mark Hatfield, nice to have you. Thanks so much, from the TSA. I appreciate it.

HATFIELD: Thanks very much.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com