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American Morning

Sniper Suspect Muhammad No Longer Representing Himself

Aired October 23, 2003 - 07:07   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Let's go to D.C. now, the sniper trial in fact, where John Allan Muhammad has decided to let his attorneys defend him, giving up on the idea of representing himself. Yesterday, the other suspect, Lee Malvo, was brought into court so witnesses could see him. And at one point, the two suspects actually locked eyes, and Muhammad made some kind of hand gesture to Malvo.
"Washington Post" reporter Michael Ruane was there. He and Sari Horowitz, who is with the "Post," have written a book about the killing spree. It's called "Sniper." And Sari Horowitz joins us from D.C. and Michael Ruane joins us from the site of the trial, Virginia Beach.

Good morning to both of you. It's nice to have you back this morning on AMERCIAN MORNING. Thanks for joining us.

MICHAEL RUANE, CO-AUTHOR, "SNIPER": Good morning.

SARI HOROWITZ, CO-AUTHOR, "SNIPER": Good morning, Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Michael, let's begin with you. As we mentioned, you were sitting in on this trial. Obviously, with this latest news, is a big change in the trial. But give me a sense of how it feels, how that has changed.

RUANE: Well, it's very interesting. The whole tenor of the trial and pace of the trial changed almost immediately, as soon as a very dejected-looking John Muhammad sat down and turned his case back over to his defense lawyers. They immediately launched a counterattack of objections and protests almost every step in the prosecution's case.

But it was very interesting. Muhammad did not look all that happy about it. In our research for our book, "Sniper," we found that he was sort of a pretender. He pretended to be all kinds of things. He pretended to be a spy and a commodities broker and an importer and a doctor and a teacher. And I think he was kind of pretending to be a lawyer the other day, and he was having a good time, and he finally had to stop.

O'BRIEN: To what degree do you think all of this change is based on what he's claimed so far, the toothache?

RUANE: I think that he saw the kind of handwriting on the wall. I think his lawyers said to him that he was doing kind of a lousy job. He looked very fumbling and unsure of himself and just at sea with the whole process. While he didn't know what to ask people, he didn't know what to say, he didn't know what to allow to get into evidence, he didn't know what to object to.

O'BRIEN: Sari, as you mentioned, you did a ton of research on this guy for your book. You've described him as a control freak. So, when you see him turn over the controls to his attorneys once again, were you surprised by that?

HOROWITZ: Well, not really. You know, it's interesting. For the book, yes, you're right. We did find him to be a very controlling man. This was quintessential John Muhammad to want to defend himself. He was controlling with his children. He abducted them and took them to the Caribbean. He was controlling with his wife. He was controlling with Lee Boyd Malvo. So, it made sense that he would want to control his own destiny.

But, as Mike pointed out, you know, it looks easier to be a lawyer than it is. You know, people who watch Perry Mason shows, that sort of thing, think this is easy. And he said, you know, I know more about this case than my lawyers, and, you know, that may be true, but he's not skilled. He didn't go to law school. He had a high school education. He wasn't trained. You know, you can't get helpful answers to questions if you don't know how to frame the questions. He didn't know about the rules of evidence in a Virginia courtroom. So, you know, he doesn't know how to object and when to object.

It's interesting what Mike said and what you brought up, Soledad, about the toothache, because we found in our research that during the sniper attacks, he complained at a YMCA of having a toothache. And during one of his interrogations when he was arrested, he had a toothache. So, this may be related to some kind of stress, some kind of chronic toothache that he gets during stress.

O'BRIEN: Michael, James Gray on the stand yesterday, tell me a little bit about his testimony. It was very moving I think it's fair to say.

RUANE: Yes, it was an incredibly dramatic moment. Gray had chased Muhammad's co-suspect, Lee Malvo, from the scene of a brutal murder and homicide and robbery in Montgomery, Alabama. Gray, a solid citizen, pursues Malvo up and down alleys, gets a couple of glimpses of him, is telling the court the whole story yesterday in very detailed terms.

Malvo was brought into the court in a short-sleeved orange jump shirt. Gray is asked, is this the guy you saw? Gray asks Malvo to be turned sideways, so he can see him better. Gray -- you hear this sort of gush of emotion from Gray. He throws his hands over his face, bursts into tears and says, "That's him."

O'BRIEN: Michael Ruane and Sari Horowitz, thanks for joining us this morning. Of course, we're going to continue to check in with you throughout this trial. I know it seems like everything has now slowed down with the changes that happened yesterday. We will continue to follow it, of course. As always, thanks for joining us.

HOROWITZ: Thank you. Thank you, Soledad.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.







Aired October 23, 2003 - 07:07   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Let's go to D.C. now, the sniper trial in fact, where John Allan Muhammad has decided to let his attorneys defend him, giving up on the idea of representing himself. Yesterday, the other suspect, Lee Malvo, was brought into court so witnesses could see him. And at one point, the two suspects actually locked eyes, and Muhammad made some kind of hand gesture to Malvo.
"Washington Post" reporter Michael Ruane was there. He and Sari Horowitz, who is with the "Post," have written a book about the killing spree. It's called "Sniper." And Sari Horowitz joins us from D.C. and Michael Ruane joins us from the site of the trial, Virginia Beach.

Good morning to both of you. It's nice to have you back this morning on AMERCIAN MORNING. Thanks for joining us.

MICHAEL RUANE, CO-AUTHOR, "SNIPER": Good morning.

SARI HOROWITZ, CO-AUTHOR, "SNIPER": Good morning, Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Michael, let's begin with you. As we mentioned, you were sitting in on this trial. Obviously, with this latest news, is a big change in the trial. But give me a sense of how it feels, how that has changed.

RUANE: Well, it's very interesting. The whole tenor of the trial and pace of the trial changed almost immediately, as soon as a very dejected-looking John Muhammad sat down and turned his case back over to his defense lawyers. They immediately launched a counterattack of objections and protests almost every step in the prosecution's case.

But it was very interesting. Muhammad did not look all that happy about it. In our research for our book, "Sniper," we found that he was sort of a pretender. He pretended to be all kinds of things. He pretended to be a spy and a commodities broker and an importer and a doctor and a teacher. And I think he was kind of pretending to be a lawyer the other day, and he was having a good time, and he finally had to stop.

O'BRIEN: To what degree do you think all of this change is based on what he's claimed so far, the toothache?

RUANE: I think that he saw the kind of handwriting on the wall. I think his lawyers said to him that he was doing kind of a lousy job. He looked very fumbling and unsure of himself and just at sea with the whole process. While he didn't know what to ask people, he didn't know what to say, he didn't know what to allow to get into evidence, he didn't know what to object to.

O'BRIEN: Sari, as you mentioned, you did a ton of research on this guy for your book. You've described him as a control freak. So, when you see him turn over the controls to his attorneys once again, were you surprised by that?

HOROWITZ: Well, not really. You know, it's interesting. For the book, yes, you're right. We did find him to be a very controlling man. This was quintessential John Muhammad to want to defend himself. He was controlling with his children. He abducted them and took them to the Caribbean. He was controlling with his wife. He was controlling with Lee Boyd Malvo. So, it made sense that he would want to control his own destiny.

But, as Mike pointed out, you know, it looks easier to be a lawyer than it is. You know, people who watch Perry Mason shows, that sort of thing, think this is easy. And he said, you know, I know more about this case than my lawyers, and, you know, that may be true, but he's not skilled. He didn't go to law school. He had a high school education. He wasn't trained. You know, you can't get helpful answers to questions if you don't know how to frame the questions. He didn't know about the rules of evidence in a Virginia courtroom. So, you know, he doesn't know how to object and when to object.

It's interesting what Mike said and what you brought up, Soledad, about the toothache, because we found in our research that during the sniper attacks, he complained at a YMCA of having a toothache. And during one of his interrogations when he was arrested, he had a toothache. So, this may be related to some kind of stress, some kind of chronic toothache that he gets during stress.

O'BRIEN: Michael, James Gray on the stand yesterday, tell me a little bit about his testimony. It was very moving I think it's fair to say.

RUANE: Yes, it was an incredibly dramatic moment. Gray had chased Muhammad's co-suspect, Lee Malvo, from the scene of a brutal murder and homicide and robbery in Montgomery, Alabama. Gray, a solid citizen, pursues Malvo up and down alleys, gets a couple of glimpses of him, is telling the court the whole story yesterday in very detailed terms.

Malvo was brought into the court in a short-sleeved orange jump shirt. Gray is asked, is this the guy you saw? Gray asks Malvo to be turned sideways, so he can see him better. Gray -- you hear this sort of gush of emotion from Gray. He throws his hands over his face, bursts into tears and says, "That's him."

O'BRIEN: Michael Ruane and Sari Horowitz, thanks for joining us this morning. Of course, we're going to continue to check in with you throughout this trial. I know it seems like everything has now slowed down with the changes that happened yesterday. We will continue to follow it, of course. As always, thanks for joining us.

HOROWITZ: Thank you. Thank you, Soledad.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.