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American Morning

Update on White House Leak Investigation

Aired October 24, 2003 - 08:16   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: The FBI has now interviewed more than three dozen members of the Bush administration investigating a leak of a CIA operative's identity. This morning we're going to update you on what we can find out right now about where this investigation is headed.
Jim Marcinkowski, Larry Johnson, former CIA officers with strong opinions about the probe. Both were trained with the operative whose cover was blown.

Gentlemen, good morning to you and thanks for coming by with us here.

LARRY JOHNSON, FORMER CIA CASE OFFICER: Good morning.

JIM MARCINKOWSKI, FORMER CIA CASE OFFICER: Good morning.

HEMMER: Larry, I want to start with you. About 36 people interviewed, at a minimum, right now. Where is this headed? Is there progress being made or not?

JOHNSON: You have to, I assume there's progress being made. I hope there's progress being made. But what I keep seeing in the newspaper is the spin and leak that this is no big deal, and that's got to stop.

HEMMER: Tell me why you think it is such a big deal.

JOHNSON: Was 9/11 a big deal? It's a big deal, in part, because we saw the planes crash into the buildings. We saw the images and the horrible vision of people jumping from those towers. We saw it. If we didn't see it and if we didn't read about it, we wouldn't know it happened. And the problem with this is a lot of the damage that has occurred is not going to be seen. It can't be photographed. We can't bring the bodies out because, in some cases, it's going to involve protecting sources and methods.

And it's important to keep this before the American people. This was a betrayal of national security.

HEMMER: Larry, tell me, what's the damage, though? If you could be specific, as best you can right now. Have lives been lost? Have people been sacrificed? What is it you're pointing to here?

JOHNSON: I don't know if lives have been lost yet, but we have to start with the damage to Mrs. Wilson. Her life has been put at risk. The people that she was working with overseas who were spies, they're potentially at risk. You could potentially have people dead because of this. But the odds of finding that out as far as the CIA coming forth and detailing it, we're not likely to hear that because they've got to protect their sources and methods.

HEMMER: All right, let's go inside that hearing.

Jim, you were there.

What can you tell us that happened?

MARCINKOWSKI: Well, first off, the hearing was held by Senator Rockefeller and Senator Roberts on 72 hour notice. So they were very receptive to our request to have a closed session of the Intelligence Committee. Obviously it was a closed session, but I can say this. I believe all the members were very concerned. They were very sincere in their concern and I have confidence that they're going to do the right thing.

HEMMER: Yes, well, if you listen to Larry -- and I don't want to categorize your comments before -- but, Larry, you're saying essentially the sky is falling in terms of the CIA around the world.

Jim, do you see it the same way? And did you get that sense in the hearing?

MARCINKOWSKI: Yes, I did. I think the message is out there, this is an unprecedented act. This has never been done by the United States government before. The exposure of an undercover intelligence officer by the U.S. government itself is unprecedented. It's not the usual leak from Washington. The leak a week scenario is not at play here. This is a very, very serious event.

HEMMER: Before Larry mentions Mrs. Wilson. I won't mention her by name here, but it's the wife of Ambassador Joe Wilson.

How is she doing?

Have you talked with her, Jim?

MARCINKOWSKI: I have not spoken with her recently. Obviously, someone in her position would probably be under a lot of stress right now.

HEMMER: Yes, Larry, I know you both are registered Republicans, is that right?

JOHNSON: Right.

HEMMER: Both you, Larry and Jim...

MARCINKOWSKI: Yes, that's right.

HEMMER: How concerned are you about the political gain that one side or the other may seek in this?

JOHNSON: Well, that's what we've got to get out of this. This is -- I don't know, Bill, if you have any kids, if you -- they've gone to school on opposite day where they wear their clothes inside out and their shoes on the wrong feet. I feel like we're seeing opposite day. If a Democrat had done this, we would see the Republicans up in arms. And as a Republican, I think we need to be consistent on this. It doesn't matter who did it. It didn't matter which party was involved. This isn't about partisan politics. This is about protecting national security and national security assets and in this case there has been a betrayal not only of the CIA officers there, but really a betrayal of those of us who have kept the secrets over the years on this point.

HEMMER: Larry, the bottom line, do you think the leaker will be caught, yes or no?

JOHNSON: I'm doubtful.

HEMMER: Yes.

Jim?

MARCINKOWSKI: I have a little more hop[e. I hope that they will find this person and maybe they'll be exposed.

HEMMER: Well, this touches your heart quite closely. We can hear it in both of your voices.

Jim Marcinkowski, Larry Johnson, thanks for being with us today in Washington.

JOHNSON: Thank you.

MARCINKOWSKI: Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired October 24, 2003 - 08:16   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: The FBI has now interviewed more than three dozen members of the Bush administration investigating a leak of a CIA operative's identity. This morning we're going to update you on what we can find out right now about where this investigation is headed.
Jim Marcinkowski, Larry Johnson, former CIA officers with strong opinions about the probe. Both were trained with the operative whose cover was blown.

Gentlemen, good morning to you and thanks for coming by with us here.

LARRY JOHNSON, FORMER CIA CASE OFFICER: Good morning.

JIM MARCINKOWSKI, FORMER CIA CASE OFFICER: Good morning.

HEMMER: Larry, I want to start with you. About 36 people interviewed, at a minimum, right now. Where is this headed? Is there progress being made or not?

JOHNSON: You have to, I assume there's progress being made. I hope there's progress being made. But what I keep seeing in the newspaper is the spin and leak that this is no big deal, and that's got to stop.

HEMMER: Tell me why you think it is such a big deal.

JOHNSON: Was 9/11 a big deal? It's a big deal, in part, because we saw the planes crash into the buildings. We saw the images and the horrible vision of people jumping from those towers. We saw it. If we didn't see it and if we didn't read about it, we wouldn't know it happened. And the problem with this is a lot of the damage that has occurred is not going to be seen. It can't be photographed. We can't bring the bodies out because, in some cases, it's going to involve protecting sources and methods.

And it's important to keep this before the American people. This was a betrayal of national security.

HEMMER: Larry, tell me, what's the damage, though? If you could be specific, as best you can right now. Have lives been lost? Have people been sacrificed? What is it you're pointing to here?

JOHNSON: I don't know if lives have been lost yet, but we have to start with the damage to Mrs. Wilson. Her life has been put at risk. The people that she was working with overseas who were spies, they're potentially at risk. You could potentially have people dead because of this. But the odds of finding that out as far as the CIA coming forth and detailing it, we're not likely to hear that because they've got to protect their sources and methods.

HEMMER: All right, let's go inside that hearing.

Jim, you were there.

What can you tell us that happened?

MARCINKOWSKI: Well, first off, the hearing was held by Senator Rockefeller and Senator Roberts on 72 hour notice. So they were very receptive to our request to have a closed session of the Intelligence Committee. Obviously it was a closed session, but I can say this. I believe all the members were very concerned. They were very sincere in their concern and I have confidence that they're going to do the right thing.

HEMMER: Yes, well, if you listen to Larry -- and I don't want to categorize your comments before -- but, Larry, you're saying essentially the sky is falling in terms of the CIA around the world.

Jim, do you see it the same way? And did you get that sense in the hearing?

MARCINKOWSKI: Yes, I did. I think the message is out there, this is an unprecedented act. This has never been done by the United States government before. The exposure of an undercover intelligence officer by the U.S. government itself is unprecedented. It's not the usual leak from Washington. The leak a week scenario is not at play here. This is a very, very serious event.

HEMMER: Before Larry mentions Mrs. Wilson. I won't mention her by name here, but it's the wife of Ambassador Joe Wilson.

How is she doing?

Have you talked with her, Jim?

MARCINKOWSKI: I have not spoken with her recently. Obviously, someone in her position would probably be under a lot of stress right now.

HEMMER: Yes, Larry, I know you both are registered Republicans, is that right?

JOHNSON: Right.

HEMMER: Both you, Larry and Jim...

MARCINKOWSKI: Yes, that's right.

HEMMER: How concerned are you about the political gain that one side or the other may seek in this?

JOHNSON: Well, that's what we've got to get out of this. This is -- I don't know, Bill, if you have any kids, if you -- they've gone to school on opposite day where they wear their clothes inside out and their shoes on the wrong feet. I feel like we're seeing opposite day. If a Democrat had done this, we would see the Republicans up in arms. And as a Republican, I think we need to be consistent on this. It doesn't matter who did it. It didn't matter which party was involved. This isn't about partisan politics. This is about protecting national security and national security assets and in this case there has been a betrayal not only of the CIA officers there, but really a betrayal of those of us who have kept the secrets over the years on this point.

HEMMER: Larry, the bottom line, do you think the leaker will be caught, yes or no?

JOHNSON: I'm doubtful.

HEMMER: Yes.

Jim?

MARCINKOWSKI: I have a little more hop[e. I hope that they will find this person and maybe they'll be exposed.

HEMMER: Well, this touches your heart quite closely. We can hear it in both of your voices.

Jim Marcinkowski, Larry Johnson, thanks for being with us today in Washington.

JOHNSON: Thank you.

MARCINKOWSKI: Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com