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American Morning

Interview with Staff Sergeant Georg Pogany

Aired November 10, 2003 - 07:33   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: The sight of an Iraqi man being torn apart by U.S. machine gun fire was enough to give one highly trained American soldier panic attacks. Staff Sergeant Georg Pogany of the U.S. Special Forces asked his superiors for help. Instead, he was charged with cowardice. That charge was reduced last week, but the soldier's career could still be over.
Joining us this morning from Colorado Springs is Sergeant Georg Pogany and his attorney, Richard Travis.

Good morning, gentlemen.

Thanks for joining us.

RICHARD TRAVIS, SGT. POGANY'S ATTORNEY: Good morning.

How are you this morning?

STAFF SGT. GEORG POGANY, CHARGED WITH DERELICTION OF DUTY: Good morning.

O'BRIEN: I'm well, thank you.

Mr. Pogany, let's begin with you. You are assigned to the 10th Special Forces Group. September 26 you depart for Iraq. Three days later you saw something that gave you horror attacks.

Tell me a little bit about what you saw.

POGANY: Well, I saw -- just to clarify, I did not see the Iraqi man being cut in half by U.S. fire. I saw the aftermath. And it was very gruesome and horrible.

O'BRIEN: What was your reaction? I know you had a very visceral reaction to what you saw and I guess you said it was hard to even realize that it was a human body almost.

POGANY: That's correct. The initial reaction was just a horrible sight and just a disbelief of what I was seeing and the fact that -- or trying to comprehend that that was a human being.

O'BRIEN: You started having some problems. Give me a sense of what happened.

POGANY: Well, several hours later I was -- it was the nighttime. This all happened at night and I was just trying to compartment all the information. And it didn't work because my -- I had a physical reaction. I could just not compartment the events.

O'BRIEN: You were physically ill. You were throwing up. You went to see your superiors. What did they tell you? You said I'm having a hard time with this. What did they say?

POGANY: Well, the following morning I went to my team sergeant and I informed him that I was having a physical reaction, that I couldn't focus, that I was having problems just compartmenting the information or the events. And his initial reaction to me was that I might want to think about what I'm doing and what I'm saying and that I have until, or after lunch, to pretty much go away and think about what I'm doing and I might not want to throw my career away, because this is definitely going to have a serious impact on my career and I should consider the legal ramifications of it and then if I change my mind after lunch, then he's willing to forget that I ever brought it up.

O'BRIEN: You were charged with cowardly conduct as a result of fear. How difficult has living with that charge -- and I know it's been dropped now -- but how tough was that? I mean obviously it carries tremendous stigma.

POGANY: Well, after I came back, I was stunned. I just, I was in disbelief that this charge was leveled against me. And then as you just said, you know, the stigma, the just being labeled a coward is just, is not, you know, it's not an every day event and it's not a very easy thing to just, you know, stick away and live with. You know, it's devastating.

O'BRIEN: Mr. Travis, let's turn to you for a moment. I know, as I mentioned, the charge has been dropped. Now your client faces potentially a court martial on a lesser charge, dereliction of duty. Did the military explain why they dropped that charge? And how do you go to fight this next charge?

TRAVIS: No, they did not explain why they dropped it. They just merely dropped it. Our defense is really the same as it would be for the original charge, namely that Sergeant Pogany had a physical reaction to seeing a dead Iraqi. As a result of that physical reaction, which included vomiting, sweating, headaches, he informed his chain of command, in essence, was relieved of duty at that time. So that he really wasn't given an opportunity to do his job. They took away his weapon. They didn't send him on any missions. And so our defense was he wasn't provided the opportunity to do his job.

The other part of our defense is that he's a good soldier. And this is a specific defense the Army, while you're in the Army, you can raise. If you look at Sergeant Pogany's past military experience, he was a very good soldier. His last NOCERs reflect he was a very good soldier.

So we plan to defend this action just as we would the cowardice charge.

O'BRIEN: Five years of service, you think you're military career might be over at this point. Are you bitter? Are you angry? POGANY: I'm not angry, I'm just, I'm somewhat disappointed. I would have thought that coming forward is a, you know, will not be looked upon as being a coward. The initial decision to come forward was not quite an easy one, either. I, you know, I thought about, you know, what will happen if I do come forward, but I felt like it was the only appropriate and responsible thing to do in order not to get to a point or a situation where I might possibly freeze up and at that point jeopardize my team, jeopardize myself.

So I think I did the right thing.

O'BRIEN: Staff Sergeant...

TRAVIS: And what I'd like to interject here, if you don't mind...

O'BRIEN: And quickly. You can, as long as it's really short, Richard.

TRAVIS: OK. The whole purpose of us coming forward is so that soldiers understand that there is combat stress and there's help for it. Our concern is because of the charges that were leveled against him, soldiers may be reluctant to come forward.

Another issue that we'd like to raise is whether or not mefloquine had any impact on this case. And as you might know from recent events, Senator Feinstein has asked the Army to look into the questions raised...

O'BRIEN: That's the anti-malarial drug that the soldiers take before they headed over to Iraq.

TRAVIS: Correct. Right.

O'BRIEN: Well, we will see how this case turns out.

Richard Travis, the attorney for Staff Sergeant Georg Pogany.

TRAVIS: Thank you.

O'BRIEN: Gentlemen, thanks for joining us this morning.

We certainly appreciate your time.

Best of luck to both of you.

TRAVIS: Thank you very much.

POGANY: Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired November 10, 2003 - 07:33   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: The sight of an Iraqi man being torn apart by U.S. machine gun fire was enough to give one highly trained American soldier panic attacks. Staff Sergeant Georg Pogany of the U.S. Special Forces asked his superiors for help. Instead, he was charged with cowardice. That charge was reduced last week, but the soldier's career could still be over.
Joining us this morning from Colorado Springs is Sergeant Georg Pogany and his attorney, Richard Travis.

Good morning, gentlemen.

Thanks for joining us.

RICHARD TRAVIS, SGT. POGANY'S ATTORNEY: Good morning.

How are you this morning?

STAFF SGT. GEORG POGANY, CHARGED WITH DERELICTION OF DUTY: Good morning.

O'BRIEN: I'm well, thank you.

Mr. Pogany, let's begin with you. You are assigned to the 10th Special Forces Group. September 26 you depart for Iraq. Three days later you saw something that gave you horror attacks.

Tell me a little bit about what you saw.

POGANY: Well, I saw -- just to clarify, I did not see the Iraqi man being cut in half by U.S. fire. I saw the aftermath. And it was very gruesome and horrible.

O'BRIEN: What was your reaction? I know you had a very visceral reaction to what you saw and I guess you said it was hard to even realize that it was a human body almost.

POGANY: That's correct. The initial reaction was just a horrible sight and just a disbelief of what I was seeing and the fact that -- or trying to comprehend that that was a human being.

O'BRIEN: You started having some problems. Give me a sense of what happened.

POGANY: Well, several hours later I was -- it was the nighttime. This all happened at night and I was just trying to compartment all the information. And it didn't work because my -- I had a physical reaction. I could just not compartment the events.

O'BRIEN: You were physically ill. You were throwing up. You went to see your superiors. What did they tell you? You said I'm having a hard time with this. What did they say?

POGANY: Well, the following morning I went to my team sergeant and I informed him that I was having a physical reaction, that I couldn't focus, that I was having problems just compartmenting the information or the events. And his initial reaction to me was that I might want to think about what I'm doing and what I'm saying and that I have until, or after lunch, to pretty much go away and think about what I'm doing and I might not want to throw my career away, because this is definitely going to have a serious impact on my career and I should consider the legal ramifications of it and then if I change my mind after lunch, then he's willing to forget that I ever brought it up.

O'BRIEN: You were charged with cowardly conduct as a result of fear. How difficult has living with that charge -- and I know it's been dropped now -- but how tough was that? I mean obviously it carries tremendous stigma.

POGANY: Well, after I came back, I was stunned. I just, I was in disbelief that this charge was leveled against me. And then as you just said, you know, the stigma, the just being labeled a coward is just, is not, you know, it's not an every day event and it's not a very easy thing to just, you know, stick away and live with. You know, it's devastating.

O'BRIEN: Mr. Travis, let's turn to you for a moment. I know, as I mentioned, the charge has been dropped. Now your client faces potentially a court martial on a lesser charge, dereliction of duty. Did the military explain why they dropped that charge? And how do you go to fight this next charge?

TRAVIS: No, they did not explain why they dropped it. They just merely dropped it. Our defense is really the same as it would be for the original charge, namely that Sergeant Pogany had a physical reaction to seeing a dead Iraqi. As a result of that physical reaction, which included vomiting, sweating, headaches, he informed his chain of command, in essence, was relieved of duty at that time. So that he really wasn't given an opportunity to do his job. They took away his weapon. They didn't send him on any missions. And so our defense was he wasn't provided the opportunity to do his job.

The other part of our defense is that he's a good soldier. And this is a specific defense the Army, while you're in the Army, you can raise. If you look at Sergeant Pogany's past military experience, he was a very good soldier. His last NOCERs reflect he was a very good soldier.

So we plan to defend this action just as we would the cowardice charge.

O'BRIEN: Five years of service, you think you're military career might be over at this point. Are you bitter? Are you angry? POGANY: I'm not angry, I'm just, I'm somewhat disappointed. I would have thought that coming forward is a, you know, will not be looked upon as being a coward. The initial decision to come forward was not quite an easy one, either. I, you know, I thought about, you know, what will happen if I do come forward, but I felt like it was the only appropriate and responsible thing to do in order not to get to a point or a situation where I might possibly freeze up and at that point jeopardize my team, jeopardize myself.

So I think I did the right thing.

O'BRIEN: Staff Sergeant...

TRAVIS: And what I'd like to interject here, if you don't mind...

O'BRIEN: And quickly. You can, as long as it's really short, Richard.

TRAVIS: OK. The whole purpose of us coming forward is so that soldiers understand that there is combat stress and there's help for it. Our concern is because of the charges that were leveled against him, soldiers may be reluctant to come forward.

Another issue that we'd like to raise is whether or not mefloquine had any impact on this case. And as you might know from recent events, Senator Feinstein has asked the Army to look into the questions raised...

O'BRIEN: That's the anti-malarial drug that the soldiers take before they headed over to Iraq.

TRAVIS: Correct. Right.

O'BRIEN: Well, we will see how this case turns out.

Richard Travis, the attorney for Staff Sergeant Georg Pogany.

TRAVIS: Thank you.

O'BRIEN: Gentlemen, thanks for joining us this morning.

We certainly appreciate your time.

Best of luck to both of you.

TRAVIS: Thank you very much.

POGANY: Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com