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American Morning

Sniper Trials

Aired November 13, 2003 - 09:15   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Now to that rapidly unfolding developments in two trials, in the D.C.-area sniper defendants, in Chesapeake, Virginia, the jury now in place, and quickly, for the trial of 18-year-old Lee Boyd Malvo. In Virginia Beach, attorneys put up only a brief defense, and very brief, for the alleged accomplice John Muhammad. Jeffrey Toobin stops in now, back here on AMERICAN MORNING, for an examination of this.
Early yesterday, the judge comes out and says, you know, you don't necessarily have to think about the fingerprint on the gun. He talked about the Caprice being used as a weapon. All along during this trial we thought they had to prove two things, fingerprint on the weapon tied to John Muhammad or the terrorism charge. How significant is this by the judge now?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: There were two theories that could get John Muhammad the death penalty: one is terrorism, which we knew he did not have to prove to be the trigger man, and that hasn't changed. What is significant about the judge's ruling yesterday, is under the so-called, and I emphasize so-called trigger man statute in Virginia, many of us thought he would have to be proved to be the person who fired the shot to get the death penalty.

The judge said no, he doesn't have to prove to have used the Bushmaster rifle. The car, the Caprice, was the weapon, in effect, by the way they set it up, with the sniper's nest, so if you prove that Muhammad set up, participated and used the Caprice as a weapon, then you can give him the death penalty under that theory, too.

HEMMER: So before deliberations start, the judge can go to jurors and charge them this way and say you can consider that.

TOOBIN: Exactly, that he said he's going to do that.

HEMMER: Which would be very significant based on what we've learned so far.

TOOBIN: Very significant, given the enormous amount of evidence tying John Muhammad to the caprice. Much less evidence tying John Muhammad to the gun. But there's been an overwhelming amount about tying him to the car.

HEMMER: Defense, three hours yesterday, five witnesses, you told Paula last night, what were your words? They're throwing in the towel?

TOOBIN: Well, I think that -- I don't want to suggest any sort of intentional giving up by the defense attorneys, but the amount of evidence is so enormous. And I don't usually believe in adding up numbers of witnesses to determine who has a better case. But when you have 136 witnesses for the prosecution, and five for the defense, it really tells you something about how overwhelming it was. All these witnesses did were just dispute certain aspects of identification testimony, whether John Muhammad was at certain of these shootings. But it was a pretty meager showing. It may be simply that the defense doesn't have anything else to work with.

HEMMER: In the other case, don't have much time for this, Lee Boyd Malvo, his attorney says he's very young -- quote now -- "He is, frankly, in terms of maturity probably about two years behind his age. You should have seen him when Mr. Muhammad took him in, he was much smaller. You're going to see this in part on the defense, that he's a kid.

TOOBIN: The Malvo people have a real defense, at least to the death penalty, and maybe even to the guilt phase. The difference in age, the relationship between the two of them, gives the Malvo lawyers a lot to work with, and the Muhammad lawyers have very little to work with.

HEMMER: Thanks, Jeff, good to see you.

TOOBIN: See you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com






Aired November 13, 2003 - 09:15   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Now to that rapidly unfolding developments in two trials, in the D.C.-area sniper defendants, in Chesapeake, Virginia, the jury now in place, and quickly, for the trial of 18-year-old Lee Boyd Malvo. In Virginia Beach, attorneys put up only a brief defense, and very brief, for the alleged accomplice John Muhammad. Jeffrey Toobin stops in now, back here on AMERICAN MORNING, for an examination of this.
Early yesterday, the judge comes out and says, you know, you don't necessarily have to think about the fingerprint on the gun. He talked about the Caprice being used as a weapon. All along during this trial we thought they had to prove two things, fingerprint on the weapon tied to John Muhammad or the terrorism charge. How significant is this by the judge now?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: There were two theories that could get John Muhammad the death penalty: one is terrorism, which we knew he did not have to prove to be the trigger man, and that hasn't changed. What is significant about the judge's ruling yesterday, is under the so-called, and I emphasize so-called trigger man statute in Virginia, many of us thought he would have to be proved to be the person who fired the shot to get the death penalty.

The judge said no, he doesn't have to prove to have used the Bushmaster rifle. The car, the Caprice, was the weapon, in effect, by the way they set it up, with the sniper's nest, so if you prove that Muhammad set up, participated and used the Caprice as a weapon, then you can give him the death penalty under that theory, too.

HEMMER: So before deliberations start, the judge can go to jurors and charge them this way and say you can consider that.

TOOBIN: Exactly, that he said he's going to do that.

HEMMER: Which would be very significant based on what we've learned so far.

TOOBIN: Very significant, given the enormous amount of evidence tying John Muhammad to the caprice. Much less evidence tying John Muhammad to the gun. But there's been an overwhelming amount about tying him to the car.

HEMMER: Defense, three hours yesterday, five witnesses, you told Paula last night, what were your words? They're throwing in the towel?

TOOBIN: Well, I think that -- I don't want to suggest any sort of intentional giving up by the defense attorneys, but the amount of evidence is so enormous. And I don't usually believe in adding up numbers of witnesses to determine who has a better case. But when you have 136 witnesses for the prosecution, and five for the defense, it really tells you something about how overwhelming it was. All these witnesses did were just dispute certain aspects of identification testimony, whether John Muhammad was at certain of these shootings. But it was a pretty meager showing. It may be simply that the defense doesn't have anything else to work with.

HEMMER: In the other case, don't have much time for this, Lee Boyd Malvo, his attorney says he's very young -- quote now -- "He is, frankly, in terms of maturity probably about two years behind his age. You should have seen him when Mr. Muhammad took him in, he was much smaller. You're going to see this in part on the defense, that he's a kid.

TOOBIN: The Malvo people have a real defense, at least to the death penalty, and maybe even to the guilt phase. The difference in age, the relationship between the two of them, gives the Malvo lawyers a lot to work with, and the Muhammad lawyers have very little to work with.

HEMMER: Thanks, Jeff, good to see you.

TOOBIN: See you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com