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American Morning
U.S. Changing Tactics to Fight Insurgents
Aired November 14, 2003 - 07:34 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The U.S. commander for Iraq, General John Abizaid, says there is a brutal and determined force of 5,000 fighters in that country trying to break America's will. And the U.S. is changing tactics to fight the insurgents.
With us now from Colorado Springs, Colorado, retired Air Force Colonel Mike Turner.
Colonel, good to see you.
I don't know if you just saw Matthew Chance's piece, but you know all about Operation Iron Hammer.
Is it a sign of desperation that we're suddenly going back to using Black Hawk helicopters and heavy ordinance in a city?
COL. MIKE TURNER, U.S. AIR FORCE (RET.): I don't think it's a sign of desperation, Anderson. It's -- the military is doing what they need to do in a very difficult, some would say possibly impossible situation. A bombing solution is a highly complex formula and it involves, in order to have a perfect bombing answer, as one of your tools in your kit, you need perfect communications, you need perfect coordination among joint forces, you need perfect acquisition and visual perception on the enemy and you need perfect performance of your weapons. And we have achieved a level of technical expertise where that's all possible.
Unfortunately, the single variable in the equation which has not changed is you also need perfect intelligence. And one of the things that asymmetrical or guerilla war counts on is that that variable never leaves the equation. It's very easy -- I won't say it's easy, but it's certainly doable today for you to tell me I want you to hit the southwest corner of that building at 12 seconds past midnight and we can do that. We have a very high degree of reliability.
But it still requires human intelligence to have 100 percent certainty that the Arab terrorist you're trying to kill is going to be standing in that corner of building at 12 seconds past midnight. And if instead it's a school child of five years old, all of a sudden not only have you failed in your bombing mission, but you've demonstrably damaged your...
COOPER: Well, isn't...
TURNER: ... your impact on the population.
COOPER: And isn't that, in fact, what guerrillas rely on? I mean my, every reading I've ever done of guerilla war suggests that the guerrillas' motive is to get their opponent to over respond, I mean to basically try to swat a fly with a Howitzer and thereby engender support for the cause.
TURNER: That is absolutely correct. Air power is a blunt instrument and this kind of operation is heart surgery. And no matter how we look at it, it is a reflection on how difficult this mission is that our military commanders believe that the best way to respond to the current level of insecurity and instability in Baghdad is this, in my judgment, fairly high risk conventional military operation against very, very difficult targets to find in the Baghdad area.
And it is fraught with real political down side risk. But I have every confidence that the military commanders have said yes, we understand that. Colonel Beckinger was right on, they do have very sophisticated systems. But, again, it will come down to we cannot make an intelligence mistake in prosecuting this kind of an operation.
COOPER: And I guess they feel they have no other options at this point.
What do you make of this news that now 300 to 400 U.S. officials from CENTCOM headquarters are going to be moving from Tampa back to their base in Qatar? How significant is it and what does it mean?
TURNER: Well, we made a move like this, or several moves like this, during Desert Storm. Generally, it's a reflection of how they can most effectively and most efficiently prosecute the mission and command the troops in theater. Sometimes it's from the rear, sometimes it's back forward. It could easily be a simple administrative move.
But I think the fact that it comes on the heels of a noticeable ramping up of the conventional operation to bring pressure to bear on the guerrillas, I think it's probably a reflection and symptomatic of the fact that the senior commanders want to be right there on station as we conduct this operation.
COOPER: All right, Colonel Mike Turner, thanks very much.
Appreciate it.
TURNER: Thank you.
You bet.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired November 14, 2003 - 07:34 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The U.S. commander for Iraq, General John Abizaid, says there is a brutal and determined force of 5,000 fighters in that country trying to break America's will. And the U.S. is changing tactics to fight the insurgents.
With us now from Colorado Springs, Colorado, retired Air Force Colonel Mike Turner.
Colonel, good to see you.
I don't know if you just saw Matthew Chance's piece, but you know all about Operation Iron Hammer.
Is it a sign of desperation that we're suddenly going back to using Black Hawk helicopters and heavy ordinance in a city?
COL. MIKE TURNER, U.S. AIR FORCE (RET.): I don't think it's a sign of desperation, Anderson. It's -- the military is doing what they need to do in a very difficult, some would say possibly impossible situation. A bombing solution is a highly complex formula and it involves, in order to have a perfect bombing answer, as one of your tools in your kit, you need perfect communications, you need perfect coordination among joint forces, you need perfect acquisition and visual perception on the enemy and you need perfect performance of your weapons. And we have achieved a level of technical expertise where that's all possible.
Unfortunately, the single variable in the equation which has not changed is you also need perfect intelligence. And one of the things that asymmetrical or guerilla war counts on is that that variable never leaves the equation. It's very easy -- I won't say it's easy, but it's certainly doable today for you to tell me I want you to hit the southwest corner of that building at 12 seconds past midnight and we can do that. We have a very high degree of reliability.
But it still requires human intelligence to have 100 percent certainty that the Arab terrorist you're trying to kill is going to be standing in that corner of building at 12 seconds past midnight. And if instead it's a school child of five years old, all of a sudden not only have you failed in your bombing mission, but you've demonstrably damaged your...
COOPER: Well, isn't...
TURNER: ... your impact on the population.
COOPER: And isn't that, in fact, what guerrillas rely on? I mean my, every reading I've ever done of guerilla war suggests that the guerrillas' motive is to get their opponent to over respond, I mean to basically try to swat a fly with a Howitzer and thereby engender support for the cause.
TURNER: That is absolutely correct. Air power is a blunt instrument and this kind of operation is heart surgery. And no matter how we look at it, it is a reflection on how difficult this mission is that our military commanders believe that the best way to respond to the current level of insecurity and instability in Baghdad is this, in my judgment, fairly high risk conventional military operation against very, very difficult targets to find in the Baghdad area.
And it is fraught with real political down side risk. But I have every confidence that the military commanders have said yes, we understand that. Colonel Beckinger was right on, they do have very sophisticated systems. But, again, it will come down to we cannot make an intelligence mistake in prosecuting this kind of an operation.
COOPER: And I guess they feel they have no other options at this point.
What do you make of this news that now 300 to 400 U.S. officials from CENTCOM headquarters are going to be moving from Tampa back to their base in Qatar? How significant is it and what does it mean?
TURNER: Well, we made a move like this, or several moves like this, during Desert Storm. Generally, it's a reflection of how they can most effectively and most efficiently prosecute the mission and command the troops in theater. Sometimes it's from the rear, sometimes it's back forward. It could easily be a simple administrative move.
But I think the fact that it comes on the heels of a noticeable ramping up of the conventional operation to bring pressure to bear on the guerrillas, I think it's probably a reflection and symptomatic of the fact that the senior commanders want to be right there on station as we conduct this operation.
COOPER: All right, Colonel Mike Turner, thanks very much.
Appreciate it.
TURNER: Thank you.
You bet.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
