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American Morning

Discussion with Michael Durant

Aired November 17, 2003 - 08:17   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: The Pentagon has still not announced what caused the deadly collision of two Black Hawk helicopters in northern Iraq. The crash on Saturday in Mosul killed at least 17 U.S. troops, injured five others.
Michael Durant knows about the dangers of flying these helicopters over hostile territory. He is a former Black Hawk pilot and POW in Mogadishu, Somalia. He's also the author of "In the Company of Heroes."

Michael Durant joins us from Huntsville, Alabama this morning.

It's nice to see you, Mr. Durant.

Thanks for joining us.

MICHAEL DURANT, EX-BLACK HAWK PILOT: Good morning, Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Obviously the investigation continues. There are many, many unanswered questions yet to be answered. But let's talk a little bit about what we might know. There are some indications that these Black Hawk helicopters were flying very low. That would mean, of course, that they were even more vulnerable than they would normally be.

Give me a little sense of what the risk would be to these helicopters at that altitude.

DURANT: Well, it depends. You know, those tactics are designed to counter certain weapons systems, infrared systems, radar guided systems, which aren't necessarily prevalent, but the low altitude tactics work well against those types of threats. Unfortunately, they don't work well against small arms and rocket propelled grenades. And if that is what brought them down, then obviously they were at risk to those weapons systems.

O'BRIEN: You were shot down in Somalia. As a pilot, can you tell if you're hit by an RPG?

DURANT: Well, the problem with the RPG is it's not a sophisticated weapon. There's no indication that it's inbound unless you happen to see the launch. So you're really relying on the crew to see the threat before it impacts the aircraft.

If you don't see it in flight or if you don't see the launch, the first indication you have is when it actually strikes the aircraft. And it's a large enough warhead that it does, in fact, make an impact. And I would compare it to perhaps going too fast through a parking lot and hitting a speed bump. I mean for an aircraft the size of a Black Hawk, that's what it felt like for me.

O'BRIEN: In the urban desert environment, I have to imagine that it's going to be very difficult to, if you do not see someone actually shooting off the RPG or a member of the crew doesn't, there's a good chance you're never going to see it. They're hard to spot.

DURANT: Right. And normally they wait till you pass by so they fire from behind. I would say in the vast majority of cases there's no indication that it's inbound until it actually hits the aircraft.

O'BRIEN: Of course, as we mentioned, many questions. There are some people who speculate that maybe the choppers just collided into each other, not necessarily hit by an RPG.

How likely do you think that scenario might be?

DURANT: Well, it is possible and I think that's one thing that people need to understand. There's a lot of aircraft flying over there. It's uncontrolled air space, meaning there's no air traffic control that's guiding these aircraft to stay away from each other. And when you're trying to fly low level tactics in a challenging environment like that is, the potential, unfortunately, does exist for a midair collision.

I'm not suggesting that's what happened, but with the volume of traffic that's over there, the tight air space and the fact that it is uncontrolled makes that at least a possibility.

O'BRIEN: What do you think an investigation, which is under way right now, what do you think they're going to have to focus on and look into to really understand what happened in this?

DURANT: Well, I think they'll be able to tell pretty quickly whether or not there was a shoot down. You know, the debris from the warhead will leave some signature. So we'll know pretty early on, I think, whether or not the aircraft were actually shot down. If they weren't, then it's a matter of control of the air space, whether or not the right measures were put in place to keep the aircraft from running into each other. I would say that that is possible because they were on separate missions, so they may never have seen each other until they collided.

Again, that's all speculation. We need to wait and find out whether or not there was a threat involved.

O'BRIEN: Michael Durant is a former Black Hawk helicopter pilot.

Thanks for joining us, Mr. Durant.

Nice to see you, as always.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired November 17, 2003 - 08:17   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: The Pentagon has still not announced what caused the deadly collision of two Black Hawk helicopters in northern Iraq. The crash on Saturday in Mosul killed at least 17 U.S. troops, injured five others.
Michael Durant knows about the dangers of flying these helicopters over hostile territory. He is a former Black Hawk pilot and POW in Mogadishu, Somalia. He's also the author of "In the Company of Heroes."

Michael Durant joins us from Huntsville, Alabama this morning.

It's nice to see you, Mr. Durant.

Thanks for joining us.

MICHAEL DURANT, EX-BLACK HAWK PILOT: Good morning, Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Obviously the investigation continues. There are many, many unanswered questions yet to be answered. But let's talk a little bit about what we might know. There are some indications that these Black Hawk helicopters were flying very low. That would mean, of course, that they were even more vulnerable than they would normally be.

Give me a little sense of what the risk would be to these helicopters at that altitude.

DURANT: Well, it depends. You know, those tactics are designed to counter certain weapons systems, infrared systems, radar guided systems, which aren't necessarily prevalent, but the low altitude tactics work well against those types of threats. Unfortunately, they don't work well against small arms and rocket propelled grenades. And if that is what brought them down, then obviously they were at risk to those weapons systems.

O'BRIEN: You were shot down in Somalia. As a pilot, can you tell if you're hit by an RPG?

DURANT: Well, the problem with the RPG is it's not a sophisticated weapon. There's no indication that it's inbound unless you happen to see the launch. So you're really relying on the crew to see the threat before it impacts the aircraft.

If you don't see it in flight or if you don't see the launch, the first indication you have is when it actually strikes the aircraft. And it's a large enough warhead that it does, in fact, make an impact. And I would compare it to perhaps going too fast through a parking lot and hitting a speed bump. I mean for an aircraft the size of a Black Hawk, that's what it felt like for me.

O'BRIEN: In the urban desert environment, I have to imagine that it's going to be very difficult to, if you do not see someone actually shooting off the RPG or a member of the crew doesn't, there's a good chance you're never going to see it. They're hard to spot.

DURANT: Right. And normally they wait till you pass by so they fire from behind. I would say in the vast majority of cases there's no indication that it's inbound until it actually hits the aircraft.

O'BRIEN: Of course, as we mentioned, many questions. There are some people who speculate that maybe the choppers just collided into each other, not necessarily hit by an RPG.

How likely do you think that scenario might be?

DURANT: Well, it is possible and I think that's one thing that people need to understand. There's a lot of aircraft flying over there. It's uncontrolled air space, meaning there's no air traffic control that's guiding these aircraft to stay away from each other. And when you're trying to fly low level tactics in a challenging environment like that is, the potential, unfortunately, does exist for a midair collision.

I'm not suggesting that's what happened, but with the volume of traffic that's over there, the tight air space and the fact that it is uncontrolled makes that at least a possibility.

O'BRIEN: What do you think an investigation, which is under way right now, what do you think they're going to have to focus on and look into to really understand what happened in this?

DURANT: Well, I think they'll be able to tell pretty quickly whether or not there was a shoot down. You know, the debris from the warhead will leave some signature. So we'll know pretty early on, I think, whether or not the aircraft were actually shot down. If they weren't, then it's a matter of control of the air space, whether or not the right measures were put in place to keep the aircraft from running into each other. I would say that that is possible because they were on separate missions, so they may never have seen each other until they collided.

Again, that's all speculation. We need to wait and find out whether or not there was a threat involved.

O'BRIEN: Michael Durant is a former Black Hawk helicopter pilot.

Thanks for joining us, Mr. Durant.

Nice to see you, as always.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com