Return to Transcripts main page

American Morning

Interview With Fawaz Gerges

Aired November 20, 2003 - 08:34   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, let's go right back to that situation in Turkey. At least 25 people have been killed, nearly 400 injured by a pair of bombings in Istanbul, Turkey today. Today's acts of terror closely follow another pair of bombings in Istanbul which targeted Jewish synagogues.
Why has Turkey suddenly become a terrorist target? Fawaz Gerges of Sarah Lawrence College is an expert on the Middle East and joins us this morning. Good morning. It's nice to see you professor.

FAWAZ GERGES, SARAH LAWRENCE COLLEGE: Good morning, Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Thanks for joining us. Surprised by the location of this attack?

GERGES: Well, no, for three reasons. I think what we need to understand, the bombings of the British establishments show clearly that soft Western targets will continue to be attacked throughout the Muslim world.

The second point, although it's difficult to prove, I think the bombings of the British establishments coincide with President Bush's visit to Britain, and of course the close alliance that exists between the Bush administration and the Blair government. And I think you will see al Qaeda and other militants try to politically exploit this particular link.

And finally, I think the choice of the bombings, a London-based bank, a British consulate, are not just convenient. I think they reflect Western financial and diplomatic power in the Muslim world. And this is a very strong message.

O'BRIEN: So a real message?

GERGES: Oh, absolutely.

O'BRIEN: A government office in Istanbul received a phone call from al Qaeda, and apparently a Turkish Islamic militant group claiming joint responsibility for the attack.

What do you think the implications of that are? Is this an indication that al Qaeda is alive and well and strong in Turkey? Is this a big surprise that al Qaeda is there?

GERGES: Well, I mean, what we need to understand, Soledad, in no Muslim country at this particular point is immune to al Qaeda's disease. It seems to me that al Qaeda, the American invasion and occupation of Iraq has really done considerable damage to Western interests, particularly for American and British interests. And also has polarized the region further.

And of course al Qaeda and other militants tried to exploit the sense of rage and victimization to continue the war against the United States and Britain, and also the Muslim societies and governments.

I think what we need to understand here is that al Qaeda's centralized command and control has been weakened considerably. And what we are witnessing in the past year, Soledad, is that regional and local affiliates are taking matters into their own hands, and attacking pro-Western Muslim governments, and also soft Western targets.

O'BRIEN: Implications of that. If you kill numbers of Muslims, as you are aiming for a British bank and as you are aiming for the British consul general and the British consulate, what are the impacts? What's the fallout? A lack of support eventually?

GERGES: Absolutely. And I think the president was very correct today that, in fact, al Qaeda and hardened militants are not just alienating world public opinion, but also Arab and Muslim public opinion.

I think Arabs and Muslims are discovering that al Qaeda and other hardened militants are exploiting their grievances against the West in order to wage a holy war against Muslim societies, and also the West.

Soledad, look what has happened in the last few weeks. Most of those who were killed in Saudi Arabia in Riyadh two weeks ago, and also in the attacks against the Jewish temples were Arabs and Muslims rather than Christians and Jews.

And now, there is really the potential, what I call for an interfaith, intercultural alliance between Arabs and Muslims and Westerners on the other hand to really try to address this terrible plague that is the nihilistic terrorists.

O'BRIEN: It sounds like you're seeing a little bit of a silver lining as a motivation to move to the right direction as far as...

GERGES: Absolutely. But what we need to understand that even though that the al Qaeda's infrastructure has been, I mean, weakened considerably, the nature of the threat has changed. It has become more elusive, more complex, and also the theater of operations has shifted to the Muslim world itself.

There is an all-out war taking place in Saudi Arabia, in Pakistan, in Indonesia, in Yemen between al Qaeda, and other Muslim governments. And the outcome of this particular war that's taking place today will ultimately determine the future of al Qaeda and it's regional affiliates.

O'BRIEN: Professor Fawaz Gerges, it's nice to have you. Thanks, Professor. Appreciate it.

GERGES: Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired November 20, 2003 - 08:34   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, let's go right back to that situation in Turkey. At least 25 people have been killed, nearly 400 injured by a pair of bombings in Istanbul, Turkey today. Today's acts of terror closely follow another pair of bombings in Istanbul which targeted Jewish synagogues.
Why has Turkey suddenly become a terrorist target? Fawaz Gerges of Sarah Lawrence College is an expert on the Middle East and joins us this morning. Good morning. It's nice to see you professor.

FAWAZ GERGES, SARAH LAWRENCE COLLEGE: Good morning, Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Thanks for joining us. Surprised by the location of this attack?

GERGES: Well, no, for three reasons. I think what we need to understand, the bombings of the British establishments show clearly that soft Western targets will continue to be attacked throughout the Muslim world.

The second point, although it's difficult to prove, I think the bombings of the British establishments coincide with President Bush's visit to Britain, and of course the close alliance that exists between the Bush administration and the Blair government. And I think you will see al Qaeda and other militants try to politically exploit this particular link.

And finally, I think the choice of the bombings, a London-based bank, a British consulate, are not just convenient. I think they reflect Western financial and diplomatic power in the Muslim world. And this is a very strong message.

O'BRIEN: So a real message?

GERGES: Oh, absolutely.

O'BRIEN: A government office in Istanbul received a phone call from al Qaeda, and apparently a Turkish Islamic militant group claiming joint responsibility for the attack.

What do you think the implications of that are? Is this an indication that al Qaeda is alive and well and strong in Turkey? Is this a big surprise that al Qaeda is there?

GERGES: Well, I mean, what we need to understand, Soledad, in no Muslim country at this particular point is immune to al Qaeda's disease. It seems to me that al Qaeda, the American invasion and occupation of Iraq has really done considerable damage to Western interests, particularly for American and British interests. And also has polarized the region further.

And of course al Qaeda and other militants tried to exploit the sense of rage and victimization to continue the war against the United States and Britain, and also the Muslim societies and governments.

I think what we need to understand here is that al Qaeda's centralized command and control has been weakened considerably. And what we are witnessing in the past year, Soledad, is that regional and local affiliates are taking matters into their own hands, and attacking pro-Western Muslim governments, and also soft Western targets.

O'BRIEN: Implications of that. If you kill numbers of Muslims, as you are aiming for a British bank and as you are aiming for the British consul general and the British consulate, what are the impacts? What's the fallout? A lack of support eventually?

GERGES: Absolutely. And I think the president was very correct today that, in fact, al Qaeda and hardened militants are not just alienating world public opinion, but also Arab and Muslim public opinion.

I think Arabs and Muslims are discovering that al Qaeda and other hardened militants are exploiting their grievances against the West in order to wage a holy war against Muslim societies, and also the West.

Soledad, look what has happened in the last few weeks. Most of those who were killed in Saudi Arabia in Riyadh two weeks ago, and also in the attacks against the Jewish temples were Arabs and Muslims rather than Christians and Jews.

And now, there is really the potential, what I call for an interfaith, intercultural alliance between Arabs and Muslims and Westerners on the other hand to really try to address this terrible plague that is the nihilistic terrorists.

O'BRIEN: It sounds like you're seeing a little bit of a silver lining as a motivation to move to the right direction as far as...

GERGES: Absolutely. But what we need to understand that even though that the al Qaeda's infrastructure has been, I mean, weakened considerably, the nature of the threat has changed. It has become more elusive, more complex, and also the theater of operations has shifted to the Muslim world itself.

There is an all-out war taking place in Saudi Arabia, in Pakistan, in Indonesia, in Yemen between al Qaeda, and other Muslim governments. And the outcome of this particular war that's taking place today will ultimately determine the future of al Qaeda and it's regional affiliates.

O'BRIEN: Professor Fawaz Gerges, it's nice to have you. Thanks, Professor. Appreciate it.

GERGES: Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com