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American Morning

Trouble in Neverland

Aired November 21, 2003 - 09:04   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Back in California, defense and prosecution teams laying their legal groundwork under the glare of the media spotlight. Jayne Weintraub is a criminal defense attorney. She joins us from Miami. CNN's legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin joins us in New York.
Good morning to both of you.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Hi.

JAYNE WEINTRAUB, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTY.: Good morning, Soledad.

TOOBIN: Good morning, Jayne.

Let's start with you. What do you think the defense does now? What's their first step? What do they start looking for in order to defend their client?

WEINTRAUB: Well, I think they need to level the playing field on a PR march. And I also think on a defense strategy move that Mark Geragos will have to start interviewing people that have daily contact with the 12-year-old accuser. I think that he will be able to show from teachers, guidance counselors, other children around, that his behavior was perfectly the same, which would go against the accusations being correct. I think it's important to show that he acted the same, nothing was different, he wasn't traumatized in any way. And if these accusations are right on the money, this child would have been acting very differently, and I don't think that's going to be the case.

Not everybody, I think, or experts in the field of child molestation would agree with you on that. And I obviously think that's going to be fertile ground in any legal argument. Plus, don't you run the risk of that backfiring? You start digging up dirt on a 12-year-old, some reports say he's a cancer patient, maybe cancer survivor, unclear on that. Can't that really backfire?

TOOBIN: Very tough road, tough line for the defense to walk, because they have to attack his credibility because he's the chief accuser in the case, but they can't do it in a way that generates sympathy for him.

The prosecution, just the opposite issue. Corroboration will be the key. What did they find in the search warrant? Did they find photographs, videotapes, letters, any sort of connection that would corroborate the story of sexual abuse. Witnesses, what did people see at Neverland? Interviewing all the security guards, all the people around Michael Jackson, that's the kind of thing the prosecution is going to be focusing on.

O'BRIEN: Jayne, let me ask you about the parents. Many people when they first heard this would say, what parent in their right mind would allow their child to sleep over at Neverland? Regardless of what charges ended up -- end up in court, regardless of how this case goes, what could happen -- what will the focus be on the parents in this? Or do you think that's not going to be a focus at all?

WEINTRAUB: Well, I think as far as the prosecution is concerned, the parents aren't going to be a focus at all. I think that from the defense standpoint it goes to the heart of these accusations. You see, my belief, from what I've seen, the little of what i've seen is a lawyer took this child to -- the child goes to the lawyer, the lawyer goes to a therapist, who has a very low standard.

Under mandatory requirements from the law, if there's any discussion of anything that could be molestation of a child, by the law, he has to report it to the authorities. The authorities that he happened to report it to is this prosecutor that I think also has a personal stake in the outcome here of what's going on. And I think he should be removed.

But to get back to your question, Soledad, the question is what responsibility do the parents have? Legally, probably none.

O'BRIEN: No, I was going to ask about the defense's strategy. Is there a strategy of going after the parents in this?

WEINTRAUB: I think it's a shakedown. I think it's absolutely a shakedown by the mother. When Michael Jackson took this 12-year-old cancer patient into his home, he bought the parents a new apartment, I understand.

O'BRIEN: Before we get into all this, and since you're not a lawyer on the case, I'm not a lawyer on this case, let's just go into the legal background issues.

Jeffrey, I want to ask you a little bit about the investigators going through the Neverland estate and taking some things out. What other things would prosecutors be doing at this stage? I mean, will they start running around and grilling people who were working there? Will they subpoena them to start having...

TOOBIN: Absolutely. One of the interesting questions is whether they will go forward with the preliminary hearing, which is the usual way in California, or will they empanel a grand jury, which will allow them to subpoena more people.

A very interesting, and I would say somewhat controversial statement by the district attorney at his press conference, is he asked other people to come forward. What if other people do come forward?

O'BRIEN: Why is that controversial? Wasn't that always a standard in sort of sexual molestation cases? We certainly saw it in not legally, but in sort of press conferences in the Catholic Church molestation cases. Other people were encouraged to come forward and share their stories.

TOOBIN: They are. But there is an element, when you have a district attorney who's being charged with stoking the case, to try to generate leads. It's not illegal. There's nothing improper about it. But it leads into Michael Jackson's argument that this prosecutor is unduly enthusiastic about pursuing this case. And there might be a suspicion of someone who came forward just now, was doing it either for publicity or for money. Anyone who comes forward now I think will probably have a little less credibility than someone who came forward when this was not a big story in the news.

O'BRIEN: Just moments ago, we heard Jayne say she thought the prosecutor in the case should step down. Why do you think so? What do you think has been done wrong so far?

WEINTRAUB: I think it's going to hurt, whether it's right or wrong and whether it's valid or not, I think it's going to hurt the prosecution in the case. I think that this prosecutor has demonstrated that he has either a personal, not vendetta, but he has a personal interest in the outcome of this case. He prosecuted him 10 years ago, and I think that was the trophy case that was taken away from him. Michael Jackson mentioned him in his song in a very derogatory manner.

O'BRIEN: I know that he definitely talked about him in a song in a very derogatory manner. He definitely talked about him a song in a derogatory manner, but I don't think he was involved in the prosecution.

TOOBIN: No, in fact, he investigated him. He did not make a case against him. There was no prosecution 10 years ago?

O'BRIEN: Is it unusual, though, for a prosecutor to jump in and take it personally?

TOOBIN: Prosecutors take their work seriously and care about it. Yes, it's true, they shouldn't become overly personally involved. But I think it's really unfair to suggest that he should step down at this point. He's not done anything that I've seen that would suggest he should step down.

WEINTRAUB: Jeff, he has a search where he has 70 agents. That is more than the beltway sniper.

TOOBIN: It's a 2,600 acre estate. You need a lot of people. There were only there for one day.

WEINTRAUB: They're not looking in the trees.

TOOBIN: I don't think that is outrageous. And to make him step down. I mean, look, you can cross-examine, you can use, in your defense, that he is unduly interested in getting Michael Jackson. You can point out maybe that this is overkill in the search, but I don't think that is an excuse to have the guy step down.

WEINTRAUB: He's joking about trick-or-treaters. He was making fun at the press conference. I just think his behavior is inappropriate.

TOOBIN: I agree that it was inappropriate. I said that earlier that I thought he was inappropriate at the press conference. But stepping down for a major investigation seems like too much of a step.

O'BRIEN: We will see what happens. Jeffrey Toobin, Jayne Weintraub, both of you, thanks so much. Appreciate it.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired November 21, 2003 - 09:04   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Back in California, defense and prosecution teams laying their legal groundwork under the glare of the media spotlight. Jayne Weintraub is a criminal defense attorney. She joins us from Miami. CNN's legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin joins us in New York.
Good morning to both of you.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Hi.

JAYNE WEINTRAUB, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTY.: Good morning, Soledad.

TOOBIN: Good morning, Jayne.

Let's start with you. What do you think the defense does now? What's their first step? What do they start looking for in order to defend their client?

WEINTRAUB: Well, I think they need to level the playing field on a PR march. And I also think on a defense strategy move that Mark Geragos will have to start interviewing people that have daily contact with the 12-year-old accuser. I think that he will be able to show from teachers, guidance counselors, other children around, that his behavior was perfectly the same, which would go against the accusations being correct. I think it's important to show that he acted the same, nothing was different, he wasn't traumatized in any way. And if these accusations are right on the money, this child would have been acting very differently, and I don't think that's going to be the case.

Not everybody, I think, or experts in the field of child molestation would agree with you on that. And I obviously think that's going to be fertile ground in any legal argument. Plus, don't you run the risk of that backfiring? You start digging up dirt on a 12-year-old, some reports say he's a cancer patient, maybe cancer survivor, unclear on that. Can't that really backfire?

TOOBIN: Very tough road, tough line for the defense to walk, because they have to attack his credibility because he's the chief accuser in the case, but they can't do it in a way that generates sympathy for him.

The prosecution, just the opposite issue. Corroboration will be the key. What did they find in the search warrant? Did they find photographs, videotapes, letters, any sort of connection that would corroborate the story of sexual abuse. Witnesses, what did people see at Neverland? Interviewing all the security guards, all the people around Michael Jackson, that's the kind of thing the prosecution is going to be focusing on.

O'BRIEN: Jayne, let me ask you about the parents. Many people when they first heard this would say, what parent in their right mind would allow their child to sleep over at Neverland? Regardless of what charges ended up -- end up in court, regardless of how this case goes, what could happen -- what will the focus be on the parents in this? Or do you think that's not going to be a focus at all?

WEINTRAUB: Well, I think as far as the prosecution is concerned, the parents aren't going to be a focus at all. I think that from the defense standpoint it goes to the heart of these accusations. You see, my belief, from what I've seen, the little of what i've seen is a lawyer took this child to -- the child goes to the lawyer, the lawyer goes to a therapist, who has a very low standard.

Under mandatory requirements from the law, if there's any discussion of anything that could be molestation of a child, by the law, he has to report it to the authorities. The authorities that he happened to report it to is this prosecutor that I think also has a personal stake in the outcome here of what's going on. And I think he should be removed.

But to get back to your question, Soledad, the question is what responsibility do the parents have? Legally, probably none.

O'BRIEN: No, I was going to ask about the defense's strategy. Is there a strategy of going after the parents in this?

WEINTRAUB: I think it's a shakedown. I think it's absolutely a shakedown by the mother. When Michael Jackson took this 12-year-old cancer patient into his home, he bought the parents a new apartment, I understand.

O'BRIEN: Before we get into all this, and since you're not a lawyer on the case, I'm not a lawyer on this case, let's just go into the legal background issues.

Jeffrey, I want to ask you a little bit about the investigators going through the Neverland estate and taking some things out. What other things would prosecutors be doing at this stage? I mean, will they start running around and grilling people who were working there? Will they subpoena them to start having...

TOOBIN: Absolutely. One of the interesting questions is whether they will go forward with the preliminary hearing, which is the usual way in California, or will they empanel a grand jury, which will allow them to subpoena more people.

A very interesting, and I would say somewhat controversial statement by the district attorney at his press conference, is he asked other people to come forward. What if other people do come forward?

O'BRIEN: Why is that controversial? Wasn't that always a standard in sort of sexual molestation cases? We certainly saw it in not legally, but in sort of press conferences in the Catholic Church molestation cases. Other people were encouraged to come forward and share their stories.

TOOBIN: They are. But there is an element, when you have a district attorney who's being charged with stoking the case, to try to generate leads. It's not illegal. There's nothing improper about it. But it leads into Michael Jackson's argument that this prosecutor is unduly enthusiastic about pursuing this case. And there might be a suspicion of someone who came forward just now, was doing it either for publicity or for money. Anyone who comes forward now I think will probably have a little less credibility than someone who came forward when this was not a big story in the news.

O'BRIEN: Just moments ago, we heard Jayne say she thought the prosecutor in the case should step down. Why do you think so? What do you think has been done wrong so far?

WEINTRAUB: I think it's going to hurt, whether it's right or wrong and whether it's valid or not, I think it's going to hurt the prosecution in the case. I think that this prosecutor has demonstrated that he has either a personal, not vendetta, but he has a personal interest in the outcome of this case. He prosecuted him 10 years ago, and I think that was the trophy case that was taken away from him. Michael Jackson mentioned him in his song in a very derogatory manner.

O'BRIEN: I know that he definitely talked about him in a song in a very derogatory manner. He definitely talked about him a song in a derogatory manner, but I don't think he was involved in the prosecution.

TOOBIN: No, in fact, he investigated him. He did not make a case against him. There was no prosecution 10 years ago?

O'BRIEN: Is it unusual, though, for a prosecutor to jump in and take it personally?

TOOBIN: Prosecutors take their work seriously and care about it. Yes, it's true, they shouldn't become overly personally involved. But I think it's really unfair to suggest that he should step down at this point. He's not done anything that I've seen that would suggest he should step down.

WEINTRAUB: Jeff, he has a search where he has 70 agents. That is more than the beltway sniper.

TOOBIN: It's a 2,600 acre estate. You need a lot of people. There were only there for one day.

WEINTRAUB: They're not looking in the trees.

TOOBIN: I don't think that is outrageous. And to make him step down. I mean, look, you can cross-examine, you can use, in your defense, that he is unduly interested in getting Michael Jackson. You can point out maybe that this is overkill in the search, but I don't think that is an excuse to have the guy step down.

WEINTRAUB: He's joking about trick-or-treaters. He was making fun at the press conference. I just think his behavior is inappropriate.

TOOBIN: I agree that it was inappropriate. I said that earlier that I thought he was inappropriate at the press conference. But stepping down for a major investigation seems like too much of a step.

O'BRIEN: We will see what happens. Jeffrey Toobin, Jayne Weintraub, both of you, thanks so much. Appreciate it.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com