Return to Transcripts main page

American Morning

Michael Jackson Proclaiming His Innocence

Aired November 21, 2003 - 08:05   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Michael Jackson proclaiming his innocence back in Nevada today. Jackson surrendered yesterday to police in Santa Barbara. Now to face charges of child molestation. After posting bail of $3 million, he was released and returned to the State of Nevada, where he's been shooting a music video.
CNN's Miguel Marquez is in Henderson, Nevada at the Green Valley Ranch Hotel, where Jackson arrived last night -- Miguel, good morning there.

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Bill.

We believe he arrived here last night. Certainly we saw him come in here through various media outlets. Presumably he is still here. But like so much about Mr. Jackson's life, the apparent isn't always the case.

He did come back here to Henderson, Nevada, though -- we do know that -- which is right next to Las Vegas. That was after a whirlwind of a trip yesterday, where he went to Santa Barbara, surrendered to police. Thirty to 40 minutes later he had been processed -- a record time for processing typically, flashing a V sign or a victory sign, maybe a peace sign, as he left the police station. And then back on a plane and back to Las Vegas.

It didn't end there, though, the trip of Michael Jackson for yesterday. Two to three hours it took him to get from the airport near where he landed here in Henderson around the city. He essentially made an enormous loop around the city, shaking hands with fans, stopping traffic, getting stopped in traffic several times, then ended up back here at the Green Valley Ranch Resort.

The only thing we know for sure at this point is that the second act of what's, I'm sure, going to be a very long drama. It will start on January 9, when Mr. Jackson will be in court, his lawyers saying yesterday, to defend himself against a big lie -- Bill.

HEMMER: Yes, Miguel, I don't know if that videotape is -- the music video, anyway -- the work is done or not.

Why would he go back to Nevada when he has that huge ranch at Neverland in Santa Barbara County?

MARQUEZ: Yes, he certainly would probably -- if he could leave the state he probably has no end of places he could go. He did, we thought he may have gone back to Neverland Ranch. It seemed to be a ruse or a fake that they had set up there. Certainly the music video may be part of the reason he came here. But he also, apparently, has family here. Janet Jackson apparently had a house here at one point. His father has a house here. It's not clear how many of them still have homes here, but Jermaine Jackson was interviewed from here yesterday. The Jackson family seems to have fairly deep roots in Las Vegas -- Bill.

HEMMER: Miguel, thanks.

Miguel Marquez in Henderson, Nevada.

Linda Fairstein is a former prosecutor.

She's with us here to talk more about the case against Michael Jackson.

Good to see you.

Good morning.

LINDA FAIRSTEIN, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Hi, Bill.

Good morning.

HEMMER: What's the D.A. up against? How difficult is this, possibly, to prove?

FAIRSTEIN: Well, it's -- we start with the fact that there's only one witness at this point. He is an eyewitness. It's not a circumstantial case. A 12-year-old young man, we believe. And I think, contrary to what some talking heads have been saying, that 12 is a good age. I mean there's children much younger than that with whom you often have problems. You can't get them to understand the nature of an oath and so they don't give sworn testimony.

I think an intelligent, reliable 12-year-old can be a very good witness.

HEMMER: Well, that's interesting, a bit more maturity, you're suggesting there.

FAIRSTEIN: More reliability, more maturity, knowing the difference between telling truth and lies, not as suggestible as very young children, if you remember all of the pre-school cases where the testimony was often so unreliable. So I think 12 is a pretty good age.

But then you try and build the case because any kind of corroboration, anything that tends to support what the child has said is what the prosecutor is looking for, this massive sweep of Never Neverland the other day, the search warrant and the efforts to find evidence. If we're talking about a pedophile, if Michael Jackson has committed these crimes, pedophiles often videotape their own acts with children. We've very often, in New York, proved cases because we found, through a search warrant, films or videotapes, information they've kept about victims. I assume these are many of the things that may have been looked for. Jeff, in the last half hour, talked about this new report in the "L.A. Times" -- we don't know if it's true about drug or, about wine and perhaps sleeping pills being given to this child, if, in fact, there's any medical evidence of that, if he was seen or evaluated soon after this event or one of these events.

So the prosecutor is trying to build a case so it is not just the unsupported testimony of a 12-year-old.

HEMMER: You mentioned the "L.A. Times" piece. There is also an element in there, they quote a source as saying that the after and the mother of the boy are split. They're no longer together. And the father is accusing the mother of being irresponsible to allow the boy to even sleep in that ranch, allegedly, with Michael Jackson by himself.

If you're defending Michael Jackson, how much do you focus in on the elements of the family and the fabric that they are put together?

FAIRSTEIN: There's no question that the defense will go after the family. And I, this is news to me. I didn't know at this point quite what it was. I could understand that there are some legitimate reasons for children to be at the zoo portion of Never Neverland. What anybody's doing in Michael Jackson's bedroom at this point unsupervised would raise questions. And so the defense will certainly try and spread that way.

HEMMER: But in the past, not specifically with this case, but your own experience tells you that defense attorneys have gone after the fabric of the family in the past.

FAIRSTEIN: Absolutely. I mean they're going to try and divert any attention from the bad conduct of their client. And so as much before the trial and certainly during, they will be trying to put the blame in as many places as they can.

HEMMER: Great to see you, Linda.

Linda Fairstein.

We'll talk again.

FAIRSTEIN: Thank you.

HEMMER: All right -- Soledad.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Even among celebrities, Michael Jackson is a superstar. Wall to wall news coverage of his story has crowded nearly everything else out of the headlines. A crush of cameras and reporters watched live as Jackson entered and then left the Santa Barbara jail house. Helicopters followed every inch of his trip back to Las Vegas and it was a slow trip because of traffic, so really inch is probably the right word. And then the fans, though, no trouble whatsoever locating Jackson's SUV as it crawled through the traffic. They stormed the car, he cracked open the window, shook their hands. It was clearly a celebrity circus.

Joining us this morning to talk about that, Michael Wolff, who's a media critic for "New York" magazine.

Good morning.

MICHAEL WOLFF, MEDIA CRITIC, "NEW YORK" MAGAZINE: How are you?

O'BRIEN: I'm fine.

And that was a bizarre day yesterday, from shots lingering on a Gulf Stream that turned out not to be the plane that Michael Jackson was even in to the traffic being so bad that the fans were able to surround the SUV and all waiting to lean in and grab little bits of Michael Jackson.

How big is it going to get? How crazy is this going to get?

WOLFF: This could be bizarre for a year. This could be our business. That's what we're going to -- what's going to happen to us. We're going into the Michael Jackson business.

O'BRIEN: Do you fault the media for paying such close attention?

You have to say, this man is arguably -- I mean we were talking about this in the break -- arguably the most famous human being on the planet.

WOLFF: On earth. And certainly the weirdest human being on earth.

O'BRIEN: OK, I'll give you that.

WOLFF: So this is, this is, obviously this is incredibly fascinating, for good reasons and for lots of bad reasons. But we are center stage, yes. This is, this is a media show. This wouldn't be happening -- I think you can say this -- this wouldn't be happening if not for us.

O'BRIEN: You don't think the public itself is fascinated by everything that Michael Jackson does?

WOLFF: Absolutely. This is, the public is fascinated, we are fascinated. But the intensity of that fascination in a sense distorts the story, causes the story. I'm not sure without this our fascination, not just now, but over the last generation, on Michael Jackson and on his weirdness, that may ultimately be part of the reason people send their children to Michael Jackson's house, which I can't -- is beyond explanation to me.

O'BRIEN: So having sleepovers at Neverland.

WOLFF: Having sleepovers...

O'BRIEN: And it sort of baffles anybody who's a parent...

WOLFF: It's all...

O'BRIEN: ... or may one day be a parent...

WOLFF: It is all baffling.

O'BRIEN: ... whatever.

Let's talk a little bit about the case down the road.

Do you think all this media attention really could put at risk any kind of fair trial? And I guess I'd say fair trial for either side in this.

WOLFF: Absolutely. I don't think, within a very short period of time, we will have eclipsed reality here. So we will never be able to figure out exactly, not only what happened, but what the motivations were, what the -- we will never be able to remove this, make this just a story about what happened between this man and this child.

O'BRIEN: How long before this little boy's name and family is leaked, do you think, with all the different media outlets that are out there, and many who don't sort of subscribe to the same rules of engagement, I would say? How long?

WOLFF: Hours.

O'BRIEN: Really? Today?

WOLFF: Yes, I would say today, tomorrow, yes, 72 hours. I mean this is going, I mean it all just is about the news cycle and about how soon people can get things into print. And with the Internet, yes, this could be, while we speak, this could be happening.

O'BRIEN: We will see.

Michael Wolff, nice to see you.

Thanks for stopping by. Appreciate it.

WOLFF: Thank you.

Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired November 21, 2003 - 08:05   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Michael Jackson proclaiming his innocence back in Nevada today. Jackson surrendered yesterday to police in Santa Barbara. Now to face charges of child molestation. After posting bail of $3 million, he was released and returned to the State of Nevada, where he's been shooting a music video.
CNN's Miguel Marquez is in Henderson, Nevada at the Green Valley Ranch Hotel, where Jackson arrived last night -- Miguel, good morning there.

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Bill.

We believe he arrived here last night. Certainly we saw him come in here through various media outlets. Presumably he is still here. But like so much about Mr. Jackson's life, the apparent isn't always the case.

He did come back here to Henderson, Nevada, though -- we do know that -- which is right next to Las Vegas. That was after a whirlwind of a trip yesterday, where he went to Santa Barbara, surrendered to police. Thirty to 40 minutes later he had been processed -- a record time for processing typically, flashing a V sign or a victory sign, maybe a peace sign, as he left the police station. And then back on a plane and back to Las Vegas.

It didn't end there, though, the trip of Michael Jackson for yesterday. Two to three hours it took him to get from the airport near where he landed here in Henderson around the city. He essentially made an enormous loop around the city, shaking hands with fans, stopping traffic, getting stopped in traffic several times, then ended up back here at the Green Valley Ranch Resort.

The only thing we know for sure at this point is that the second act of what's, I'm sure, going to be a very long drama. It will start on January 9, when Mr. Jackson will be in court, his lawyers saying yesterday, to defend himself against a big lie -- Bill.

HEMMER: Yes, Miguel, I don't know if that videotape is -- the music video, anyway -- the work is done or not.

Why would he go back to Nevada when he has that huge ranch at Neverland in Santa Barbara County?

MARQUEZ: Yes, he certainly would probably -- if he could leave the state he probably has no end of places he could go. He did, we thought he may have gone back to Neverland Ranch. It seemed to be a ruse or a fake that they had set up there. Certainly the music video may be part of the reason he came here. But he also, apparently, has family here. Janet Jackson apparently had a house here at one point. His father has a house here. It's not clear how many of them still have homes here, but Jermaine Jackson was interviewed from here yesterday. The Jackson family seems to have fairly deep roots in Las Vegas -- Bill.

HEMMER: Miguel, thanks.

Miguel Marquez in Henderson, Nevada.

Linda Fairstein is a former prosecutor.

She's with us here to talk more about the case against Michael Jackson.

Good to see you.

Good morning.

LINDA FAIRSTEIN, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Hi, Bill.

Good morning.

HEMMER: What's the D.A. up against? How difficult is this, possibly, to prove?

FAIRSTEIN: Well, it's -- we start with the fact that there's only one witness at this point. He is an eyewitness. It's not a circumstantial case. A 12-year-old young man, we believe. And I think, contrary to what some talking heads have been saying, that 12 is a good age. I mean there's children much younger than that with whom you often have problems. You can't get them to understand the nature of an oath and so they don't give sworn testimony.

I think an intelligent, reliable 12-year-old can be a very good witness.

HEMMER: Well, that's interesting, a bit more maturity, you're suggesting there.

FAIRSTEIN: More reliability, more maturity, knowing the difference between telling truth and lies, not as suggestible as very young children, if you remember all of the pre-school cases where the testimony was often so unreliable. So I think 12 is a pretty good age.

But then you try and build the case because any kind of corroboration, anything that tends to support what the child has said is what the prosecutor is looking for, this massive sweep of Never Neverland the other day, the search warrant and the efforts to find evidence. If we're talking about a pedophile, if Michael Jackson has committed these crimes, pedophiles often videotape their own acts with children. We've very often, in New York, proved cases because we found, through a search warrant, films or videotapes, information they've kept about victims. I assume these are many of the things that may have been looked for. Jeff, in the last half hour, talked about this new report in the "L.A. Times" -- we don't know if it's true about drug or, about wine and perhaps sleeping pills being given to this child, if, in fact, there's any medical evidence of that, if he was seen or evaluated soon after this event or one of these events.

So the prosecutor is trying to build a case so it is not just the unsupported testimony of a 12-year-old.

HEMMER: You mentioned the "L.A. Times" piece. There is also an element in there, they quote a source as saying that the after and the mother of the boy are split. They're no longer together. And the father is accusing the mother of being irresponsible to allow the boy to even sleep in that ranch, allegedly, with Michael Jackson by himself.

If you're defending Michael Jackson, how much do you focus in on the elements of the family and the fabric that they are put together?

FAIRSTEIN: There's no question that the defense will go after the family. And I, this is news to me. I didn't know at this point quite what it was. I could understand that there are some legitimate reasons for children to be at the zoo portion of Never Neverland. What anybody's doing in Michael Jackson's bedroom at this point unsupervised would raise questions. And so the defense will certainly try and spread that way.

HEMMER: But in the past, not specifically with this case, but your own experience tells you that defense attorneys have gone after the fabric of the family in the past.

FAIRSTEIN: Absolutely. I mean they're going to try and divert any attention from the bad conduct of their client. And so as much before the trial and certainly during, they will be trying to put the blame in as many places as they can.

HEMMER: Great to see you, Linda.

Linda Fairstein.

We'll talk again.

FAIRSTEIN: Thank you.

HEMMER: All right -- Soledad.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Even among celebrities, Michael Jackson is a superstar. Wall to wall news coverage of his story has crowded nearly everything else out of the headlines. A crush of cameras and reporters watched live as Jackson entered and then left the Santa Barbara jail house. Helicopters followed every inch of his trip back to Las Vegas and it was a slow trip because of traffic, so really inch is probably the right word. And then the fans, though, no trouble whatsoever locating Jackson's SUV as it crawled through the traffic. They stormed the car, he cracked open the window, shook their hands. It was clearly a celebrity circus.

Joining us this morning to talk about that, Michael Wolff, who's a media critic for "New York" magazine.

Good morning.

MICHAEL WOLFF, MEDIA CRITIC, "NEW YORK" MAGAZINE: How are you?

O'BRIEN: I'm fine.

And that was a bizarre day yesterday, from shots lingering on a Gulf Stream that turned out not to be the plane that Michael Jackson was even in to the traffic being so bad that the fans were able to surround the SUV and all waiting to lean in and grab little bits of Michael Jackson.

How big is it going to get? How crazy is this going to get?

WOLFF: This could be bizarre for a year. This could be our business. That's what we're going to -- what's going to happen to us. We're going into the Michael Jackson business.

O'BRIEN: Do you fault the media for paying such close attention?

You have to say, this man is arguably -- I mean we were talking about this in the break -- arguably the most famous human being on the planet.

WOLFF: On earth. And certainly the weirdest human being on earth.

O'BRIEN: OK, I'll give you that.

WOLFF: So this is, this is, obviously this is incredibly fascinating, for good reasons and for lots of bad reasons. But we are center stage, yes. This is, this is a media show. This wouldn't be happening -- I think you can say this -- this wouldn't be happening if not for us.

O'BRIEN: You don't think the public itself is fascinated by everything that Michael Jackson does?

WOLFF: Absolutely. This is, the public is fascinated, we are fascinated. But the intensity of that fascination in a sense distorts the story, causes the story. I'm not sure without this our fascination, not just now, but over the last generation, on Michael Jackson and on his weirdness, that may ultimately be part of the reason people send their children to Michael Jackson's house, which I can't -- is beyond explanation to me.

O'BRIEN: So having sleepovers at Neverland.

WOLFF: Having sleepovers...

O'BRIEN: And it sort of baffles anybody who's a parent...

WOLFF: It's all...

O'BRIEN: ... or may one day be a parent...

WOLFF: It is all baffling.

O'BRIEN: ... whatever.

Let's talk a little bit about the case down the road.

Do you think all this media attention really could put at risk any kind of fair trial? And I guess I'd say fair trial for either side in this.

WOLFF: Absolutely. I don't think, within a very short period of time, we will have eclipsed reality here. So we will never be able to figure out exactly, not only what happened, but what the motivations were, what the -- we will never be able to remove this, make this just a story about what happened between this man and this child.

O'BRIEN: How long before this little boy's name and family is leaked, do you think, with all the different media outlets that are out there, and many who don't sort of subscribe to the same rules of engagement, I would say? How long?

WOLFF: Hours.

O'BRIEN: Really? Today?

WOLFF: Yes, I would say today, tomorrow, yes, 72 hours. I mean this is going, I mean it all just is about the news cycle and about how soon people can get things into print. And with the Internet, yes, this could be, while we speak, this could be happening.

O'BRIEN: We will see.

Michael Wolff, nice to see you.

Thanks for stopping by. Appreciate it.

WOLFF: Thank you.

Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com