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American Morning
Military Investigating Deaths of Two U.S. Soldiers
Aired November 24, 2003 - 07:34 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: In Iraq, the military is investigating the deaths of two U.S. soldiers in the northern town of Mosul. Eyewitnesses are saying the soldiers were dragged out of a civilian vehicle after being shot yesterday. The attack comes as U.S. CENTCOM Commander General John Abizaid reestablishes his headquarters in that region.
Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr was with him and has this morning an exclusive look in Iraq.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BARBARA STARR, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Approach Baghdad, security forces begin to get ready. CNN accompanied General John Abizaid into Iraq at a time when violent attacks remain a concern. The deadline for transfer to Iraqi sovereignty now just months away.
Abizaid travels in an armed helicopter convoy west to Falluja and al-Ramadi, where there have been many deadly attacks against U.S. troops. After detailed briefings, the general is confident, but sober.
GEN. JOHN ABIZAID, COMMANDER, U.S. CENTRAL COMMAND: I think that this particular area that we've been traveling in in Falluja and al- Ramadi, is really the toughest area that we've got in the country and it will take time to unravel the enemy. It'll take time to build Iraqi security capacity.
STARR: To unravel the enemy, an intelligence priority is to discover crucial operational links between cells of opposition forces across Iraq to break their organization.
The commander of the 82nd Airborne Division, which oversees Falluja and al-Ramadi, says Iraqi security forces will be key.
MAJ. GEN. CHUCK SWANNACK, COMMANDER, 82ND AIRBORNE DIVISION: But we're not equipping them right. We're not giving them radios. We're not giving them the proper vehicles they need to do their job.
STARR: Swannack says it's vital to ensure the Iraqis do not become a hollow force. At the end of the day it's back to Baghdad.
Barbara Starr, CNN, Baghdad.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HEMMER: Our next guest says the real threat is not from the group's central command, but from terrorist cells worldwide that he says are growing now at an alarming rate.
Zachary Abuza is the author of "Militant Islam In Southeast Asia."
He's with us this morning in D.C.
Good morning, sir.
Good to have you here.
ZACHARY ABUZA, AUTHOR, "MILITANT ISLAM IN SOUTHEAST ASIA": Nice to be here, Bill.
HEMMER: I've read a number of your comments. Quite intriguing. Answer this first off, though. If Saudi Arabia and countries like Turkey continue to get hit, conventional wisdom says the public support drifts away from these groups.
How do they benefit with attacks that we've seen over the past month?
ABUZA: Well, on the one hand, they simply do not see these states as being truly Muslim states. They see them as being appa (ph) states. Although they're majority Muslim populations, they are -- the governments are closely allied with the United States. They're committed to the war on terror. And the fact is that they have not implemented Sharia law. They're not really an Islamic state.
So...
HEMMER: Ultimately, though, does it help deteriorate those groups, then?
ABUZA: Well, I think that they underestimated the backlash against them in all of these Muslim states. But they're not afraid to take them on and to force these governments to make very hard choices between supporting the United States and kowtowing to a vociferous minority.
HEMMER: The smaller cells you're talking about, how do you fight them?
ABUZA: The power of al Qaeda is not in the central organization. That, the U.S. government has always over estimated or publicly portrayed the center to be much larger than it is. The power of al Qaeda is its network of some 40 to 60 affiliate groups around the world. What we need there is the cooperation, the considerable intelligence and policing cooperation of our partners in, around the world, in the states where these groups are located, whether in Southeast Asia or the Horn of Africa or now Turkey and Saudi Arabia.
What we've got to do is figure out ways to pose an ideological counter to them. But we have to be cognizant that the future attacks are going to come from these smaller groups. Less is known about them. They're much more dynamic. HEMMER: Some of your comments say if the U.S. pulled out of Iraq, the United States would get more support in fighting the war on terror. It's counter-intuitive.
What do you mean by that?
ABUZA: Well, I'm not sure if we pulled out now it would be a good thing. But the fact is America entered the war in Iraq without the support of our key allies in the war on terror. And across Southeast Asia, the region I focused on, the populations were overwhelming against the war on terror, as were most of the governments.
It's very hard for us to go out and try to support this war when the populations in these countries are convinced that the war on terror is patently anti-Muslim. So America's unilateral actions in Iraq simply angered so much of the populations and governments are unwilling to stand up to us.
But more importantly, when we go to places like Turkey or we go to Indonesia and we're looking for moderate Muslim leaders to stand out and to provide an ideological counter to al Qaeda, they can't do it when their constituencies are so angry at the United States.
HEMMER: Zachary Abuza is the author of "Militant Islam In Southeast Asia."
Thanks for your time this morning.
Nice to chat with you.
ABUZA: Thank you for having me.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired November 24, 2003 - 07:34 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: In Iraq, the military is investigating the deaths of two U.S. soldiers in the northern town of Mosul. Eyewitnesses are saying the soldiers were dragged out of a civilian vehicle after being shot yesterday. The attack comes as U.S. CENTCOM Commander General John Abizaid reestablishes his headquarters in that region.
Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr was with him and has this morning an exclusive look in Iraq.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BARBARA STARR, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Approach Baghdad, security forces begin to get ready. CNN accompanied General John Abizaid into Iraq at a time when violent attacks remain a concern. The deadline for transfer to Iraqi sovereignty now just months away.
Abizaid travels in an armed helicopter convoy west to Falluja and al-Ramadi, where there have been many deadly attacks against U.S. troops. After detailed briefings, the general is confident, but sober.
GEN. JOHN ABIZAID, COMMANDER, U.S. CENTRAL COMMAND: I think that this particular area that we've been traveling in in Falluja and al- Ramadi, is really the toughest area that we've got in the country and it will take time to unravel the enemy. It'll take time to build Iraqi security capacity.
STARR: To unravel the enemy, an intelligence priority is to discover crucial operational links between cells of opposition forces across Iraq to break their organization.
The commander of the 82nd Airborne Division, which oversees Falluja and al-Ramadi, says Iraqi security forces will be key.
MAJ. GEN. CHUCK SWANNACK, COMMANDER, 82ND AIRBORNE DIVISION: But we're not equipping them right. We're not giving them radios. We're not giving them the proper vehicles they need to do their job.
STARR: Swannack says it's vital to ensure the Iraqis do not become a hollow force. At the end of the day it's back to Baghdad.
Barbara Starr, CNN, Baghdad.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HEMMER: Our next guest says the real threat is not from the group's central command, but from terrorist cells worldwide that he says are growing now at an alarming rate.
Zachary Abuza is the author of "Militant Islam In Southeast Asia."
He's with us this morning in D.C.
Good morning, sir.
Good to have you here.
ZACHARY ABUZA, AUTHOR, "MILITANT ISLAM IN SOUTHEAST ASIA": Nice to be here, Bill.
HEMMER: I've read a number of your comments. Quite intriguing. Answer this first off, though. If Saudi Arabia and countries like Turkey continue to get hit, conventional wisdom says the public support drifts away from these groups.
How do they benefit with attacks that we've seen over the past month?
ABUZA: Well, on the one hand, they simply do not see these states as being truly Muslim states. They see them as being appa (ph) states. Although they're majority Muslim populations, they are -- the governments are closely allied with the United States. They're committed to the war on terror. And the fact is that they have not implemented Sharia law. They're not really an Islamic state.
So...
HEMMER: Ultimately, though, does it help deteriorate those groups, then?
ABUZA: Well, I think that they underestimated the backlash against them in all of these Muslim states. But they're not afraid to take them on and to force these governments to make very hard choices between supporting the United States and kowtowing to a vociferous minority.
HEMMER: The smaller cells you're talking about, how do you fight them?
ABUZA: The power of al Qaeda is not in the central organization. That, the U.S. government has always over estimated or publicly portrayed the center to be much larger than it is. The power of al Qaeda is its network of some 40 to 60 affiliate groups around the world. What we need there is the cooperation, the considerable intelligence and policing cooperation of our partners in, around the world, in the states where these groups are located, whether in Southeast Asia or the Horn of Africa or now Turkey and Saudi Arabia.
What we've got to do is figure out ways to pose an ideological counter to them. But we have to be cognizant that the future attacks are going to come from these smaller groups. Less is known about them. They're much more dynamic. HEMMER: Some of your comments say if the U.S. pulled out of Iraq, the United States would get more support in fighting the war on terror. It's counter-intuitive.
What do you mean by that?
ABUZA: Well, I'm not sure if we pulled out now it would be a good thing. But the fact is America entered the war in Iraq without the support of our key allies in the war on terror. And across Southeast Asia, the region I focused on, the populations were overwhelming against the war on terror, as were most of the governments.
It's very hard for us to go out and try to support this war when the populations in these countries are convinced that the war on terror is patently anti-Muslim. So America's unilateral actions in Iraq simply angered so much of the populations and governments are unwilling to stand up to us.
But more importantly, when we go to places like Turkey or we go to Indonesia and we're looking for moderate Muslim leaders to stand out and to provide an ideological counter to al Qaeda, they can't do it when their constituencies are so angry at the United States.
HEMMER: Zachary Abuza is the author of "Militant Islam In Southeast Asia."
Thanks for your time this morning.
Nice to chat with you.
ABUZA: Thank you for having me.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
