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American Morning

Search for Sadadm

Aired November 27, 2003 - 08:15   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: The final OK is being given now for 17,000 reserves and 3,000 more Marines to be sent to Iraq and to Afghanistan. Some of those reinforcements may soon be involved in the hunt for Saddam Hussein and one of his top deputies, Izza Ibrahim al Duri.
One of al Duri's wives and a daughter are now being held by U.S. forces, picked up earlier this week. And for more on what this man may or may not have to do with the insurgency, Jeff Stein is the editor of "Congressional Quarterly's" Homeland Security news and co- author of "Saddam's Bombmaker."

Nice to see you, Jeff. Good morning to you.

JEFF STEIN, CO-AUTHOR, "SADDAM'S BOMBMAKER": Thank you.

HEMMER: Appreciate you coming in on the holiday. What are his previous ties, al Duri, with Saddam Hussein? What kind of power did he have?

STEIN: This is a big guy. They came up together. And so they're very much twined in a life of subversion, deception, intelligence, terrorism. You know, Saddam has had a long time to prepare for the American invasion. He wasn't sitting around and watching CNN and thinking oh, well the Americans are here, I have to really plan an escape route.

He's been thinking about this for years and years and years. And so people like al Duri, who are very, very close to him, you know, can carry on war. They've already long ago thought about how they would carry out a campaign of terrorism and subversion.

And al Duri's one of the best. He's a top guy. Having said that, now that al Duri's captured Saddam, also is very good at keeping even his closest aides guessing where he's going to be. So al Duri's intelligence on where he may be is going to get old very fast.

HEMMER: Yes, I take it from your answer, though, you would be not surprised at all if he was, in fact, spearheading the resistance in Iraq.

STEIN: Not at all.

HEMMER: What do you make of the fact that his wife and daughter were picked up earlier this week? How significant, if at all?

STEIN: Well, you know, they're not invited to a tea party or Thanksgiving dinner. I think the pressure here and the message here is very direct. You know, we like to give -- we dedicate ourselves to democratic principles and the rule of law. But Mr. Al Duri no doubt knows very well that his family's been picked up. And I wouldn't be surprised if special operations forces have dropped off a videotape at a go-between to let him know how they look. And the message is implicit, that you know, your family is going to be held until you turn yourself in.

HEMMER: You know, Jeff, Centcom is saying they're being held as material witnesses. Is that a fact, do you believe? Or is this bargaining chips under way?

STEIN: Well, that's very narrowly true. You know, they are material witnesses to the crimes of the regime. Everyone at the top knows about them, you know, without any question whatsoever.

But that's not the point. They're not -- this is not law and order. You know, they're not picking them up to testify in a trial. They're being picked up to put not too subtle pressure on al Duri and other top members of the regime, who are still on the run that we'll grab your family and hold them until you come in.

And in their mindset, they're feeling that the Americans will do anything to get us. I think we will follow some norms of behavior, and not, you know, punish the family. But there's a clear message to al Duri and other top regime members that your families are going to be brought in if you don't come in.

HEMMER: I don't have much time left. Let me get to two more points if I could, quickly have.

STEIN: Sure.

HEMMER: You have said with our producers, in fact last evening you say if the Iraqis are fighting with low technology, meaning low- tech work, the U.S. is in serious trouble. What do you mean by that?

STEIN: Well, what I meant is she was saying that a top American general had been talking about how there seems to be coordination between the provinces. And if that's true, that means that they're very capable of talking to each other via low-tech cell phones, let's say, talking on cell phones, throwing them away, using messengers, using even department store radios to talk to each other.

Our intercept equipment is designed to intercept very sophisticated communications. And the Iraqis, as al Qaeda has learned, that they can go low-tech while we're high tech. And the danger in all this, if it's true that there's coordination, is that they can really sustain a campaign against us to a degree that we hadn't anticipated.

HEMMER: Jeff, thanks. I'm out of time. Appreciate talking to you, come on back, okay?

STEIN: Thanks, Bill.

HEMMER: Happy Thanksgiving in light of our discussion here.

STEIN: Same to you.

HEMMER: Jeff Stein in D.C.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired November 27, 2003 - 08:15   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: The final OK is being given now for 17,000 reserves and 3,000 more Marines to be sent to Iraq and to Afghanistan. Some of those reinforcements may soon be involved in the hunt for Saddam Hussein and one of his top deputies, Izza Ibrahim al Duri.
One of al Duri's wives and a daughter are now being held by U.S. forces, picked up earlier this week. And for more on what this man may or may not have to do with the insurgency, Jeff Stein is the editor of "Congressional Quarterly's" Homeland Security news and co- author of "Saddam's Bombmaker."

Nice to see you, Jeff. Good morning to you.

JEFF STEIN, CO-AUTHOR, "SADDAM'S BOMBMAKER": Thank you.

HEMMER: Appreciate you coming in on the holiday. What are his previous ties, al Duri, with Saddam Hussein? What kind of power did he have?

STEIN: This is a big guy. They came up together. And so they're very much twined in a life of subversion, deception, intelligence, terrorism. You know, Saddam has had a long time to prepare for the American invasion. He wasn't sitting around and watching CNN and thinking oh, well the Americans are here, I have to really plan an escape route.

He's been thinking about this for years and years and years. And so people like al Duri, who are very, very close to him, you know, can carry on war. They've already long ago thought about how they would carry out a campaign of terrorism and subversion.

And al Duri's one of the best. He's a top guy. Having said that, now that al Duri's captured Saddam, also is very good at keeping even his closest aides guessing where he's going to be. So al Duri's intelligence on where he may be is going to get old very fast.

HEMMER: Yes, I take it from your answer, though, you would be not surprised at all if he was, in fact, spearheading the resistance in Iraq.

STEIN: Not at all.

HEMMER: What do you make of the fact that his wife and daughter were picked up earlier this week? How significant, if at all?

STEIN: Well, you know, they're not invited to a tea party or Thanksgiving dinner. I think the pressure here and the message here is very direct. You know, we like to give -- we dedicate ourselves to democratic principles and the rule of law. But Mr. Al Duri no doubt knows very well that his family's been picked up. And I wouldn't be surprised if special operations forces have dropped off a videotape at a go-between to let him know how they look. And the message is implicit, that you know, your family is going to be held until you turn yourself in.

HEMMER: You know, Jeff, Centcom is saying they're being held as material witnesses. Is that a fact, do you believe? Or is this bargaining chips under way?

STEIN: Well, that's very narrowly true. You know, they are material witnesses to the crimes of the regime. Everyone at the top knows about them, you know, without any question whatsoever.

But that's not the point. They're not -- this is not law and order. You know, they're not picking them up to testify in a trial. They're being picked up to put not too subtle pressure on al Duri and other top members of the regime, who are still on the run that we'll grab your family and hold them until you come in.

And in their mindset, they're feeling that the Americans will do anything to get us. I think we will follow some norms of behavior, and not, you know, punish the family. But there's a clear message to al Duri and other top regime members that your families are going to be brought in if you don't come in.

HEMMER: I don't have much time left. Let me get to two more points if I could, quickly have.

STEIN: Sure.

HEMMER: You have said with our producers, in fact last evening you say if the Iraqis are fighting with low technology, meaning low- tech work, the U.S. is in serious trouble. What do you mean by that?

STEIN: Well, what I meant is she was saying that a top American general had been talking about how there seems to be coordination between the provinces. And if that's true, that means that they're very capable of talking to each other via low-tech cell phones, let's say, talking on cell phones, throwing them away, using messengers, using even department store radios to talk to each other.

Our intercept equipment is designed to intercept very sophisticated communications. And the Iraqis, as al Qaeda has learned, that they can go low-tech while we're high tech. And the danger in all this, if it's true that there's coordination, is that they can really sustain a campaign against us to a degree that we hadn't anticipated.

HEMMER: Jeff, thanks. I'm out of time. Appreciate talking to you, come on back, okay?

STEIN: Thanks, Bill.

HEMMER: Happy Thanksgiving in light of our discussion here.

STEIN: Same to you.

HEMMER: Jeff Stein in D.C.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com