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American Morning

Malvo Trial

Aired December 09, 2003 - 09:33   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Turning to the trial of accused sniper Lee Boyd Malvo, a psychologist testified yesterday for the defense. He says Malvo told him he was the lookout, not the shooter in the killing of FBI analyst Linda Franklin. Police say Malvo made a statement to them in which he named himself as the trigger man.
Joining us to talk about the latest developments in this case, Sari Horowitz is coauthor of the book "Sniper."

Sari, nice to see you. Thanks for joining us this morning.

SARI HOROWITZ, "THE WASHINGTON POST": Good morning, Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Thank you very much.

A psychologist who spent a lot of time with Malvo talked about the role, and he said that he was -- he said Malvo told him he was the spotter, he was not the sniper. How did the court respond to this information?

HOROWITZ: You know, it was a big day in court for the defense. It was very compelling and dramatic testimony. This psychologist, Mr. Cornell, spent some 54 hours with Malvo, 21 visits with him since February. He went to Jamaica, he went to Antigua. Basically he said that Malvo told him he wasn't the shooter, that he was the spotter, he had walkie-talkies and he was using binoculars from across the road. And this is important because it goes against the six-hour confession that he gave the police. He told the psychologist that basically his confession to police was all a lie, that he had -- and Muhammad had planned this ahead of time, that if they were caught, he would confess, because he's the juvenile.

O'BRIEN: There is always a risk when you say, the first thing I said was a lie, the second thing I'm telling you now is the truth. How do you think this is going to play in court? I mean, there is sort of the essential problem, right?

HOROWITZ: Well, Soledad, that's exactly right. I mean, which one is true, the 6 1/2 hour confession to the police, or now what he told the psychologist? As far as whether he was the shooter or the spotter, I'm not sure if much matters. Most of the forensic evidence in this case ties Malvo to the case, his finger prints on the gun, the DNA, his handwriting on the notes, his voice on the recordings to the police.

And it's very interesting, because in the Muhammad case, the prosecutor said we can't prove that he shot anyone, there was no ability to prove whether he did any of the shootings. But still, the jury convicted him and gave him the death penalty for his involvement in the case.

O'BRIEN: Was that then an indication they're looking forward to the sentencing phase and being the spotter rather than the shooter would be sort of an ameliorating factor in the death sentence?

HOROWITZ: Well, I think the strategy of the defense is -- they have already said that Lee Malvo was involved in these crimes. I think what they'll say to the jury is if he's found guilty, don't give him death, because he was indoctrinated, he was brainwashed. That will be their argument. Of course, someone can be indoctrinated, and brainwashed and influenced, as clearly Malvo was by Muhammad with the exercise regime, the diet, the violent movies and all that. You can be indoctrinated, but not be insane. And that will be up to the jury to decide, did Malvo, at the time of these shootings, know right from wrong, because that's the legal standard for insanity.

O'BRIEN: Jury sat through a clip of "The Matrix," about eight minutes long. The claim is that Malvo saw "The Matrix" 100 times or so in order to prepare his mind for what was going to lie ahead. That's the defense's argument at least anyway. What do you make of that?

HOROWITZ: You know, many people, hundreds of people, have seen "The Matrix" and not gone out and committed a horrific spree of killings. But, yes, they said that he loved that movie, that Malvo loved the movie, that he saw it more than 100 times. Clearly, the lines for Malvo seemed to have been blurred between fantasy and reality. In his drawings that he's done in court, he has drawn Neo, who is in the movie. Maybe he saw himself as Neo, and Muhammad as Morpheus, the mentor.

Malvo has talked about how they wanted to change the world, how they wanted to create a righteous society, which is a theme that comes up in "The Matrix." And so their lines may have been drawn between fantasy and reality. And in "The Matrix," it's interesting, because they think that all of reality is a lie, and that there was no right and wrong, that the government -- because the government is a lie, and maybe he seemed to be living in that world.

O'BRIEN: Many questions. Of course it all continues. Sari Horowitz, nice to see you. Thanks, as always.

HOROWITZ: Thank you, Soledad.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired December 9, 2003 - 09:33   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Turning to the trial of accused sniper Lee Boyd Malvo, a psychologist testified yesterday for the defense. He says Malvo told him he was the lookout, not the shooter in the killing of FBI analyst Linda Franklin. Police say Malvo made a statement to them in which he named himself as the trigger man.
Joining us to talk about the latest developments in this case, Sari Horowitz is coauthor of the book "Sniper."

Sari, nice to see you. Thanks for joining us this morning.

SARI HOROWITZ, "THE WASHINGTON POST": Good morning, Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Thank you very much.

A psychologist who spent a lot of time with Malvo talked about the role, and he said that he was -- he said Malvo told him he was the spotter, he was not the sniper. How did the court respond to this information?

HOROWITZ: You know, it was a big day in court for the defense. It was very compelling and dramatic testimony. This psychologist, Mr. Cornell, spent some 54 hours with Malvo, 21 visits with him since February. He went to Jamaica, he went to Antigua. Basically he said that Malvo told him he wasn't the shooter, that he was the spotter, he had walkie-talkies and he was using binoculars from across the road. And this is important because it goes against the six-hour confession that he gave the police. He told the psychologist that basically his confession to police was all a lie, that he had -- and Muhammad had planned this ahead of time, that if they were caught, he would confess, because he's the juvenile.

O'BRIEN: There is always a risk when you say, the first thing I said was a lie, the second thing I'm telling you now is the truth. How do you think this is going to play in court? I mean, there is sort of the essential problem, right?

HOROWITZ: Well, Soledad, that's exactly right. I mean, which one is true, the 6 1/2 hour confession to the police, or now what he told the psychologist? As far as whether he was the shooter or the spotter, I'm not sure if much matters. Most of the forensic evidence in this case ties Malvo to the case, his finger prints on the gun, the DNA, his handwriting on the notes, his voice on the recordings to the police.

And it's very interesting, because in the Muhammad case, the prosecutor said we can't prove that he shot anyone, there was no ability to prove whether he did any of the shootings. But still, the jury convicted him and gave him the death penalty for his involvement in the case.

O'BRIEN: Was that then an indication they're looking forward to the sentencing phase and being the spotter rather than the shooter would be sort of an ameliorating factor in the death sentence?

HOROWITZ: Well, I think the strategy of the defense is -- they have already said that Lee Malvo was involved in these crimes. I think what they'll say to the jury is if he's found guilty, don't give him death, because he was indoctrinated, he was brainwashed. That will be their argument. Of course, someone can be indoctrinated, and brainwashed and influenced, as clearly Malvo was by Muhammad with the exercise regime, the diet, the violent movies and all that. You can be indoctrinated, but not be insane. And that will be up to the jury to decide, did Malvo, at the time of these shootings, know right from wrong, because that's the legal standard for insanity.

O'BRIEN: Jury sat through a clip of "The Matrix," about eight minutes long. The claim is that Malvo saw "The Matrix" 100 times or so in order to prepare his mind for what was going to lie ahead. That's the defense's argument at least anyway. What do you make of that?

HOROWITZ: You know, many people, hundreds of people, have seen "The Matrix" and not gone out and committed a horrific spree of killings. But, yes, they said that he loved that movie, that Malvo loved the movie, that he saw it more than 100 times. Clearly, the lines for Malvo seemed to have been blurred between fantasy and reality. In his drawings that he's done in court, he has drawn Neo, who is in the movie. Maybe he saw himself as Neo, and Muhammad as Morpheus, the mentor.

Malvo has talked about how they wanted to change the world, how they wanted to create a righteous society, which is a theme that comes up in "The Matrix." And so their lines may have been drawn between fantasy and reality. And in "The Matrix," it's interesting, because they think that all of reality is a lie, and that there was no right and wrong, that the government -- because the government is a lie, and maybe he seemed to be living in that world.

O'BRIEN: Many questions. Of course it all continues. Sari Horowitz, nice to see you. Thanks, as always.

HOROWITZ: Thank you, Soledad.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com