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American Morning

The Malvo Case

Aired December 10, 2003 - 08:35   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: The trial of sniper suspect Lee Boyd Malvo is scheduled to resume this morning in Chesapeake, Virginia. Testimony on Tuesday focused on Malvo's state of mind at the time of the shootings last fall. The prosecutor challenged defense claims that Malvo was insane, because he was indoctrinated by John Muhammad.
Joining us this morning from Chicago is forensic psychiatrist, Dr. Helen Morrison.

Dr. Morrison, good morning. Nice to have you, and thanks for joining us.

DR. HELEN MORRISON, FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: Good morning.

O'BRIEN: Let's get right into it. A witness backed up the defense's claim that Malvo was essentially a child soldier. Give me a sense of if that term, child soldier, would immediately mean and be equivalent to indoctrination and then probably more importantly, insanity?

MORRISON: Well, first of all, he wasn't a child soldier. He wasn't one of the children such as we have in Rwanda, who's dealing with war and conflict constantly. He was a companion. Indoctrination is something that the defense has appeared to use to try to have people feel either some sympathy or some sense that this boy, child, adolescent, had no free will. And we know that from his actions prior to meeting up with Muhammad, that this boy was quite capable of managing his life. I mean, he traveled from his home country to the United States, was quite capable of doing all types of daily actions, made decisions. One of the most important decisions he seemed to have made was the one where he wanted to cover for John Muhammad. He wanted to take the blame, which really indicates that he knew the difference between right and wrong.

O'BRIEN: So you think, then, that the confession that we have heard so much about, and that some people say truly is probably the biggest hurdle in the defense's case, actually works against him in many ways, not only just specifically the words that were said, but the fact that there was a confession at all means that he had a very good sense of right and wrong?

MORRISON: He did. And one of the parts of the insanity defense is that you have to have a serious mental illness, which means that generally people will say that this is a psychosis. You're out of contact with reality, or you're having the belief, for example, that the television is talking to you, or you're getting messages from outer space that you're not caring for yourself, or you're not capable of managing to be somewhat organized in your behavior. But it has to be that that serious mental illness will lead to the inability to know the difference between right and wrong, or to understand your actions. And what he has done has really demonstrated that he did know the difference, and it was very much at the time.

Indoctrinating someone, having someone in a cult sense, or a Stockholm Syndrome, where you identify with your captor, does not seem to fit this individual. Of course, I've not examined him. But if I were examining him, I would certainly look for several of those factors.

O'BRIEN: Let's talk a little bit about the drawings we have seen over the last several weeks now, the various drawings that Lee Boyd Malvo has done. What do you make of those drawings? Do they signify anything to you about maybe a clarity of mind or the lack thereof?

MORRISON: Well, one of the things about drawings is that they show us something only in the context of how the person would describe the drawings to us. But in addition, we can see that he has some artistic ability. He was quite capable of making an organized drawing. He was capable of showing form and shading. He didn't have any odd types of presentations during his drawings. Most people who are seriously mentally ill cannot do something that detailed. They're not capable of pulling together the nuances that you see in these drawings.

O'BRIEN: The trial now focusing on the mental health of Lee Boyd Malvo. Dr. Helen Morrison joining us this morning. Nice to see you, Dr. Morrison. Thanks a lot.

MORRISON: Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired December 10, 2003 - 08:35   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: The trial of sniper suspect Lee Boyd Malvo is scheduled to resume this morning in Chesapeake, Virginia. Testimony on Tuesday focused on Malvo's state of mind at the time of the shootings last fall. The prosecutor challenged defense claims that Malvo was insane, because he was indoctrinated by John Muhammad.
Joining us this morning from Chicago is forensic psychiatrist, Dr. Helen Morrison.

Dr. Morrison, good morning. Nice to have you, and thanks for joining us.

DR. HELEN MORRISON, FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: Good morning.

O'BRIEN: Let's get right into it. A witness backed up the defense's claim that Malvo was essentially a child soldier. Give me a sense of if that term, child soldier, would immediately mean and be equivalent to indoctrination and then probably more importantly, insanity?

MORRISON: Well, first of all, he wasn't a child soldier. He wasn't one of the children such as we have in Rwanda, who's dealing with war and conflict constantly. He was a companion. Indoctrination is something that the defense has appeared to use to try to have people feel either some sympathy or some sense that this boy, child, adolescent, had no free will. And we know that from his actions prior to meeting up with Muhammad, that this boy was quite capable of managing his life. I mean, he traveled from his home country to the United States, was quite capable of doing all types of daily actions, made decisions. One of the most important decisions he seemed to have made was the one where he wanted to cover for John Muhammad. He wanted to take the blame, which really indicates that he knew the difference between right and wrong.

O'BRIEN: So you think, then, that the confession that we have heard so much about, and that some people say truly is probably the biggest hurdle in the defense's case, actually works against him in many ways, not only just specifically the words that were said, but the fact that there was a confession at all means that he had a very good sense of right and wrong?

MORRISON: He did. And one of the parts of the insanity defense is that you have to have a serious mental illness, which means that generally people will say that this is a psychosis. You're out of contact with reality, or you're having the belief, for example, that the television is talking to you, or you're getting messages from outer space that you're not caring for yourself, or you're not capable of managing to be somewhat organized in your behavior. But it has to be that that serious mental illness will lead to the inability to know the difference between right and wrong, or to understand your actions. And what he has done has really demonstrated that he did know the difference, and it was very much at the time.

Indoctrinating someone, having someone in a cult sense, or a Stockholm Syndrome, where you identify with your captor, does not seem to fit this individual. Of course, I've not examined him. But if I were examining him, I would certainly look for several of those factors.

O'BRIEN: Let's talk a little bit about the drawings we have seen over the last several weeks now, the various drawings that Lee Boyd Malvo has done. What do you make of those drawings? Do they signify anything to you about maybe a clarity of mind or the lack thereof?

MORRISON: Well, one of the things about drawings is that they show us something only in the context of how the person would describe the drawings to us. But in addition, we can see that he has some artistic ability. He was quite capable of making an organized drawing. He was capable of showing form and shading. He didn't have any odd types of presentations during his drawings. Most people who are seriously mentally ill cannot do something that detailed. They're not capable of pulling together the nuances that you see in these drawings.

O'BRIEN: The trial now focusing on the mental health of Lee Boyd Malvo. Dr. Helen Morrison joining us this morning. Nice to see you, Dr. Morrison. Thanks a lot.

MORRISON: Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com