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American Morning

Wrestling Death

Aired December 11, 2003 - 09:41   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Lionel Tate was considered to be the youngest person ever to be sentenced to life in prison when he was convicted three years ago. Now an appeals court says there was a problem with his trial, and Tate's lawyers won the appeal because the 12-year-old was never given a competency evaluation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everybody was put in a position that no one had really been put in before, having a 12-year-old child in this position. Did he understand? You know, who knows what's in the mind of a 12-year-old little boy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: Ken Padowitz prosecuted Lionel Tate. He now represents the mother of the 6-year-old girl that Tate killed.

Good morning. Thanks for joining us, Ken.

KEN PADOWITZ, PROSECUTED LIONEL TATE: Good morning.

O'BRIEN: So many questions come out of this case. It's fairly confusing. But first, I want to get your reaction when the appeals court overturned the conviction?

PADOWITZ: I'm saddened that justice has now been delayed once again for this little beautiful 6-year-old first grade girl named Tiffany Eunick. You know, a jury an opportunity to hear 2 1/2 weeks of evidence, and they determined this was a brutal, savage beating. They rejected outright this hoax of a professional wrestling or an accident defense.

Lionel Tate was convicted, and then after his conviction, even though he had a whole cadre of psychologists for an entire year prior to that trial, never once did they ever indicate that he was not competent legally to stand trial.

In fact, I had a state psychologist, Dr. Sherry Carter find him, after spending a day with Lionel Tate, find him to be legally competent. It's not until after he's convicted at trial, that they raise their hand and they say, you know what, Lionel Tate wasn't competent to proceed. That's what's so distressing.

O'BRIEN: What do you think happens now? Do you expect that he will be retried? PADOWITZ: My hope is that the attorney general's office in Florida will appeal this to the Florida supreme court. But if that does not happen, he faces an indictment for first degree murder as an adult all the way back to the beginning of this whole case once again.

O'BRIEN: But you can't go back and give a competency hearing to a 16-year-old based on how he was when he was 12.

PADOWITZ: Right. And that is why the appellate court says that he should have had a competency hearing, which I adamantly disagree with, when you have five psychologists. You had enough psychologists on the defense team to open up their own school psychology. But the appellate court has spoken and if it's not overturned by the Supreme Court, he faces either a new trial, or a plea bargain that could be offered by the prosecutor.

O'BRIEN: Originally, you had a plea bargain. You offered three years and then probation on top of that. Would you offer that if you were going to be the prosecuting attorney, or would you not?

PADOWITZ: I understand Lionel Tate was 12 at the time he committed this horrible offense. And this case really doesn't circle around Lionel Tate. It really concerns the victim, Tiffany Eunick. But we offered that very lenient plea deal of three years in a juvenile facility and 10 years of probation.

O'BRIEN: Still, that offer you think should still be on the table?

PADOWITZ: I think it was very lenient. I think it was too lenient. we wanted to end this for the victim's family. We wanted to put some resolution an end to this, and so I don't think that necessarily is the appropriate sentence now.

O'BRIEN: What do you think is an appropriate punishment? What would you like to see in this case?

PADOWITZ: I would like to see life in prison with automatic eligibility for parole. That would hand the key to release to Lionel Tate. He could be out in six weeks, six months or 60 years depending on his showing that he's rehabilitated and ready to be released back in a society to live next door to you or to me.

O'BRIEN: Your client, of course, is Tiffany the 6-year-old who died in all this. Tiffany's mother, how's she doing? What's her reaction been?

PADOWITZ: Well, she was saddened, obviously, that this again has now taken a turn where she has to now sit back and watch again the evidence that was just monumental in this case about the brutal beating that her daughter received at the hands of Lionel Tate over the course of five minutes, which equaled 35 injuries, and with forces that were equal to falling out of a second and third floor building. So she was very distressed that this how has been reversed by the appellate court, when he had so many psychologists that never used and raised this issue of his not being able to proceed legally because of competence.

O'BRIEN: We will see how the courts decide. Ken Padowitz, nice to have you. Thanks for joining us to talk about the case.

BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: A bit of a different context right now. Our senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin stopping by for his take on this. You say this is a statement by the court?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SR. LEGAL ANALYST: I think the court sort of worked backwards here. They wanted the result first. The result was a life sentence for a 12-year-old kid who had been offered a three- year deal was an abomination. They thought that was simply outrageous, and they found a reason to overturn the case.

HEMMER: How often do you see statements like this?

TOOBIN: Occasionally. When a case just seems like a manifest in justice, an appeals court will say, you know, we'll find a reason, but what we're really doing is saying this result is...

HEMMER: You just heard from the prosecutor, though. They offered three years in the beginning, now he would like to see again life in prison.

TOOBIN: With a chance for parole. But I mean, I just think that's why this case will end in a plea bargain, not maybe three years. He's already served more than three years. So it will end with a far lesser sentence, and I think a just sentence that does underline the seriousness of this awful crime. I mean, this child was killed. It was awful. But a life sentence for a 12-year-old is just simply too long.

HEMMER: If you were to see a new trial, would you see Lionel Tate walk the street? Would he be released while that trial gets under way?

TOOBIN: Bail will be a very tough question. I think his lawyers will argue very hard for bail. I don't know. You can bet that's the first question that will be dealt with right away, now that this case is overturned.

HEMMER: Thanks, Jeff. Our senior legal analyst.

TOOBIN: My new title.

HEMMER: Mr. Senior.

TOOBIN: The other title they were asking for was yo me.

HEMMER: I'll still call you that.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired December 11, 2003 - 09:41   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Lionel Tate was considered to be the youngest person ever to be sentenced to life in prison when he was convicted three years ago. Now an appeals court says there was a problem with his trial, and Tate's lawyers won the appeal because the 12-year-old was never given a competency evaluation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everybody was put in a position that no one had really been put in before, having a 12-year-old child in this position. Did he understand? You know, who knows what's in the mind of a 12-year-old little boy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: Ken Padowitz prosecuted Lionel Tate. He now represents the mother of the 6-year-old girl that Tate killed.

Good morning. Thanks for joining us, Ken.

KEN PADOWITZ, PROSECUTED LIONEL TATE: Good morning.

O'BRIEN: So many questions come out of this case. It's fairly confusing. But first, I want to get your reaction when the appeals court overturned the conviction?

PADOWITZ: I'm saddened that justice has now been delayed once again for this little beautiful 6-year-old first grade girl named Tiffany Eunick. You know, a jury an opportunity to hear 2 1/2 weeks of evidence, and they determined this was a brutal, savage beating. They rejected outright this hoax of a professional wrestling or an accident defense.

Lionel Tate was convicted, and then after his conviction, even though he had a whole cadre of psychologists for an entire year prior to that trial, never once did they ever indicate that he was not competent legally to stand trial.

In fact, I had a state psychologist, Dr. Sherry Carter find him, after spending a day with Lionel Tate, find him to be legally competent. It's not until after he's convicted at trial, that they raise their hand and they say, you know what, Lionel Tate wasn't competent to proceed. That's what's so distressing.

O'BRIEN: What do you think happens now? Do you expect that he will be retried? PADOWITZ: My hope is that the attorney general's office in Florida will appeal this to the Florida supreme court. But if that does not happen, he faces an indictment for first degree murder as an adult all the way back to the beginning of this whole case once again.

O'BRIEN: But you can't go back and give a competency hearing to a 16-year-old based on how he was when he was 12.

PADOWITZ: Right. And that is why the appellate court says that he should have had a competency hearing, which I adamantly disagree with, when you have five psychologists. You had enough psychologists on the defense team to open up their own school psychology. But the appellate court has spoken and if it's not overturned by the Supreme Court, he faces either a new trial, or a plea bargain that could be offered by the prosecutor.

O'BRIEN: Originally, you had a plea bargain. You offered three years and then probation on top of that. Would you offer that if you were going to be the prosecuting attorney, or would you not?

PADOWITZ: I understand Lionel Tate was 12 at the time he committed this horrible offense. And this case really doesn't circle around Lionel Tate. It really concerns the victim, Tiffany Eunick. But we offered that very lenient plea deal of three years in a juvenile facility and 10 years of probation.

O'BRIEN: Still, that offer you think should still be on the table?

PADOWITZ: I think it was very lenient. I think it was too lenient. we wanted to end this for the victim's family. We wanted to put some resolution an end to this, and so I don't think that necessarily is the appropriate sentence now.

O'BRIEN: What do you think is an appropriate punishment? What would you like to see in this case?

PADOWITZ: I would like to see life in prison with automatic eligibility for parole. That would hand the key to release to Lionel Tate. He could be out in six weeks, six months or 60 years depending on his showing that he's rehabilitated and ready to be released back in a society to live next door to you or to me.

O'BRIEN: Your client, of course, is Tiffany the 6-year-old who died in all this. Tiffany's mother, how's she doing? What's her reaction been?

PADOWITZ: Well, she was saddened, obviously, that this again has now taken a turn where she has to now sit back and watch again the evidence that was just monumental in this case about the brutal beating that her daughter received at the hands of Lionel Tate over the course of five minutes, which equaled 35 injuries, and with forces that were equal to falling out of a second and third floor building. So she was very distressed that this how has been reversed by the appellate court, when he had so many psychologists that never used and raised this issue of his not being able to proceed legally because of competence.

O'BRIEN: We will see how the courts decide. Ken Padowitz, nice to have you. Thanks for joining us to talk about the case.

BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: A bit of a different context right now. Our senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin stopping by for his take on this. You say this is a statement by the court?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SR. LEGAL ANALYST: I think the court sort of worked backwards here. They wanted the result first. The result was a life sentence for a 12-year-old kid who had been offered a three- year deal was an abomination. They thought that was simply outrageous, and they found a reason to overturn the case.

HEMMER: How often do you see statements like this?

TOOBIN: Occasionally. When a case just seems like a manifest in justice, an appeals court will say, you know, we'll find a reason, but what we're really doing is saying this result is...

HEMMER: You just heard from the prosecutor, though. They offered three years in the beginning, now he would like to see again life in prison.

TOOBIN: With a chance for parole. But I mean, I just think that's why this case will end in a plea bargain, not maybe three years. He's already served more than three years. So it will end with a far lesser sentence, and I think a just sentence that does underline the seriousness of this awful crime. I mean, this child was killed. It was awful. But a life sentence for a 12-year-old is just simply too long.

HEMMER: If you were to see a new trial, would you see Lionel Tate walk the street? Would he be released while that trial gets under way?

TOOBIN: Bail will be a very tough question. I think his lawyers will argue very hard for bail. I don't know. You can bet that's the first question that will be dealt with right away, now that this case is overturned.

HEMMER: Thanks, Jeff. Our senior legal analyst.

TOOBIN: My new title.

HEMMER: Mr. Senior.

TOOBIN: The other title they were asking for was yo me.

HEMMER: I'll still call you that.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com