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American Morning
Interview With Noah Feldman
Aired December 16, 2003 - 08:08 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Despite a personal message of contempt for Saddam Hussein, President Bush is promising him a fair trial that will stand up to international scrutiny. But what shape could such a proceeding take?
Noah Feldman is an NYU law professor. He's also the author of the book "After Jihad."
He joins us this morning from Washington, D.C.
Nice to see you, Noah.
Thanks for joining us.
Let's start with just listening to a little bit of what the president had to say yesterday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The Iraqis need to be very much involved. He was the person that -- they were the people that were brutalized by this man. He murdered them. He gassed them. He tortured them. He had rape rooms. And they need to be very much involved in the process. And we will work with the Iraqis to develop a process.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: He uses the words very much involved but he does not say specifically that the Iraqis would be holding a trial in their country and be responsible, with Iraqi judges, for trying Saddam Hussein.
Do you think that -- what do you think should happen at this point? How do you think it should work?
NOAH FELDMAN, AUTHOR, "AFTER JIHAD": There's an argument for a more international tribunal that would satisfy the international community. But the drawback to such an approach is that it would not satisfy the Iraqis. They very much feel, across-the-board, that they should be the ones in charge of judging him. Of course, that's with the exception of those Iraqis who are still supporting him and who are still involved in the insurgency.
So I think that the most likely outcome is right now some sort of a trial in Iraq organized and run by Iraqis with international assistance. O'BRIEN: And, in fact, Saddam Hussein's oldest daughter has weighed in and said that she would like to see not a trial that is run by the Iraqi Governing Council or Iraqis, but some kind of international tribunal. She obviously, I don't think, gets much of a vote there.
But what kind of involvement, when you say the international community would have some kind of involvement, specifically what would they do?
FELDMAN: Well, there could actually be international judges added to a panel of Iraqi judges. And the special statute enacted by Ambassador Bremer last week actually would provide for that as a possibility. You could also just have staff members added to the tribunal, let's say as prosecutor or prosecutor assistants, who are internationals from whatever country who might be able to assist in the preparation of the case.
Probably the presentation, however, of the case, and the judging of the case, will take place by Iraqis.
O'BRIEN: President Bush, in his news conference, said he murdered them, meaning Iraqis, he gassed them, he tortured them, he raped them and then went on to say that, not to worry, he's going to have a fair trial.
Envision for me what a fair trial would look like. How would it work?
FELDMAN: It's a real quandary to have a fair trial when everyone is assuming that the person is guilty and, of course, the overwhelming evidence is that the person is guilty. But the key to it is to actually go through the steps of presenting strong evidence connecting Saddam to the atrocities like the gassing of the Kurds, to things like the massacre of hundreds of thousands of Shia and to allow Saddam to present a defense.
The bottom line is you can't have a fair trial unless the defense has a chance to present his view.
O'BRIEN: When he came out of the hole, reportedly he said, "I am the president of Iraq and I want to negotiate."
Can you envision a scenario where, in fact, negotiation would take place, where he would exchange what he knows about weapons of mass destruction, what he knows about the insurgency, what he knows about relationships with other countries in exchange for a lesser sentence, in exchange for his life, let's say, if he were, in the end, to be executed?
FELDMAN: I think it's extremely unlikely because the trial ultimately has to send a message to the world and to the Iraqis that the Iraqis are in charge of their own future and their own fate. And the Iraqis are unlikely to want to cut a deal.
There's also the moral side of the question. Plea bargaining with people who are responsible for genocide does not set a good precedent in the international community and I think we ought to really try to avoid that if at all possible.
O'BRIEN: Professor Noah Feldman joining us this morning from Washington, D.C.
It's nice to see you.
Thanks for joining us.
FELDMAN: A pleasure to see you, too.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired December 16, 2003 - 08:08 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Despite a personal message of contempt for Saddam Hussein, President Bush is promising him a fair trial that will stand up to international scrutiny. But what shape could such a proceeding take?
Noah Feldman is an NYU law professor. He's also the author of the book "After Jihad."
He joins us this morning from Washington, D.C.
Nice to see you, Noah.
Thanks for joining us.
Let's start with just listening to a little bit of what the president had to say yesterday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The Iraqis need to be very much involved. He was the person that -- they were the people that were brutalized by this man. He murdered them. He gassed them. He tortured them. He had rape rooms. And they need to be very much involved in the process. And we will work with the Iraqis to develop a process.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: He uses the words very much involved but he does not say specifically that the Iraqis would be holding a trial in their country and be responsible, with Iraqi judges, for trying Saddam Hussein.
Do you think that -- what do you think should happen at this point? How do you think it should work?
NOAH FELDMAN, AUTHOR, "AFTER JIHAD": There's an argument for a more international tribunal that would satisfy the international community. But the drawback to such an approach is that it would not satisfy the Iraqis. They very much feel, across-the-board, that they should be the ones in charge of judging him. Of course, that's with the exception of those Iraqis who are still supporting him and who are still involved in the insurgency.
So I think that the most likely outcome is right now some sort of a trial in Iraq organized and run by Iraqis with international assistance. O'BRIEN: And, in fact, Saddam Hussein's oldest daughter has weighed in and said that she would like to see not a trial that is run by the Iraqi Governing Council or Iraqis, but some kind of international tribunal. She obviously, I don't think, gets much of a vote there.
But what kind of involvement, when you say the international community would have some kind of involvement, specifically what would they do?
FELDMAN: Well, there could actually be international judges added to a panel of Iraqi judges. And the special statute enacted by Ambassador Bremer last week actually would provide for that as a possibility. You could also just have staff members added to the tribunal, let's say as prosecutor or prosecutor assistants, who are internationals from whatever country who might be able to assist in the preparation of the case.
Probably the presentation, however, of the case, and the judging of the case, will take place by Iraqis.
O'BRIEN: President Bush, in his news conference, said he murdered them, meaning Iraqis, he gassed them, he tortured them, he raped them and then went on to say that, not to worry, he's going to have a fair trial.
Envision for me what a fair trial would look like. How would it work?
FELDMAN: It's a real quandary to have a fair trial when everyone is assuming that the person is guilty and, of course, the overwhelming evidence is that the person is guilty. But the key to it is to actually go through the steps of presenting strong evidence connecting Saddam to the atrocities like the gassing of the Kurds, to things like the massacre of hundreds of thousands of Shia and to allow Saddam to present a defense.
The bottom line is you can't have a fair trial unless the defense has a chance to present his view.
O'BRIEN: When he came out of the hole, reportedly he said, "I am the president of Iraq and I want to negotiate."
Can you envision a scenario where, in fact, negotiation would take place, where he would exchange what he knows about weapons of mass destruction, what he knows about the insurgency, what he knows about relationships with other countries in exchange for a lesser sentence, in exchange for his life, let's say, if he were, in the end, to be executed?
FELDMAN: I think it's extremely unlikely because the trial ultimately has to send a message to the world and to the Iraqis that the Iraqis are in charge of their own future and their own fate. And the Iraqis are unlikely to want to cut a deal.
There's also the moral side of the question. Plea bargaining with people who are responsible for genocide does not set a good precedent in the international community and I think we ought to really try to avoid that if at all possible.
O'BRIEN: Professor Noah Feldman joining us this morning from Washington, D.C.
It's nice to see you.
Thanks for joining us.
FELDMAN: A pleasure to see you, too.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
