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American Morning

Sex Toys Sting

Aired December 17, 2003 - 08:37   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: To hear Joanne Webb tell it, the products that she sells are designed to enhance adult relationships. Authorities in Texas, though, see it a little bit differently. Joanne was arrested after selling a sex toy to undercover cops at one of her tupperware-style passion parties. Well now, the former teacher and mother of three is facing obscenity charges.
Joanne Webb joins us this morning from Burleson, Texas, along with her husband Chris, and her attorney Beann Sisemore. We also should note that we invited the Johnson County prosecutor to appear this morning or comment on the case, but he declined.

So good morning to all of you.

Joanne, let's begin with you. Give me a sense of the circumstances of your arrest. What exactly happened?

JOANNE WEBB, CHARGED WITH CRIMINAL OBSCENITY: Well, basically, the undercover narcotics detectives came to my office, and posing as a couple, and as I often do with young, married women, I educate them a little bit, I talk to them about my products, and how to enhance their relationship. They were very interested. They were young. They were cute. They were listening to everything I had to say. And they wanted to purchase some products then and there. I gave them my brochures to look through, and they chose some items, and I gave them to them.

O'BRIEN: Three days later, though, you were turning yourself in at the courthouse. Were you aware that there was a law on the books that forbids, I guess what they're calling -- what's the exact word, the possession with intent to promote any obscene material or obscene device. That's the Texas state law word for word. Were you aware that that was actually on the books?

WEBB: Obviously not. I was very proud of my business. I'd gone around town telling friends about it, trying to book some parties here in town. I'd even joined the chamber of commerce with my business. Obviously, I did not think anything was illegal about my business.

O'BRIEN: You're not the only representative of the passion parties in Texas. And we're talking about state law here. So why do you think you're a target?

WEBB: You know, that's a good question. I'm hoping that by the end of this, we'll find out.

O'BRIEN: Beann, as we mentioned, you are representing the family here. It's a misdemeanor, right?

BEANN SISEMORE, ATTORNEY FOR WOMAN CHARGED WITH OBSCENITY: That's correct.

WEBB: So give me a sense of literally what does your client face right now?

SISEMORE: Well, she could face up to a year in jail. And which is very concerning to all of us. But more concerning to us is that this is a lady that was a schoolteacher, a member of the chamber of commerce and very active in her city, and that what she wanted to do is try to help married couples because the divorce rate is rising, and she basically -- she has parties in private homes, with ladies that come there, that are over the age of 18.

O'BRIEN: Now correct me on the law here, forgive me for interrupting you there, but in Texas, my understanding is that adult stores can actually sell sex toys as long as they call them novelty items, right? So is the problem...

SISEMORE: As long as they lie to the public. If they lie to the public...

O'BRIEN: As long as they're called novelty items is the way the law reads when I read it, so I'll continue to go with that. If you had -- if your client had sold the items as novelty items, if she turned them over to the couple that came in, and said, you know, these are novelty items, would she be in the clear, do you think?

SISEMORE: I don't know, because you've got to understand that you have to put this in connection with, she has a private party and talks to ladies about being comfortable with their own sexuality, and in Texas, we're a more conservative group, and Southern ladies have been more conservative over the years, and our divorce rate is one of the highest around. And so what she tries to do is make sure that families stay together.

And so in answer to your question, I don't know, because this has not been enforced very much throughout the state, and certainly not in the private home.

O'BRIEN: I'm going to give the final question this morning to Chris, Joanne's husband, and I got to imagine what a shock to you to have your wife under arrest and all this.

Your wife, obviously, has made clear that she is going forward with this, because she really wants to change society. How has this been for you? You have businesses in town. You're upstanding members of the community. How are you all doing?

CHRIS WEBB, WIFE CHARGED WITH CRIMINAL OBSCENITY: Well, our businesses have slowed down dramatically. But I'm very proud of Joanne, she's making a difference in people's lives. She's intelligent, articulate, beautiful. She's a perfect example of a modern woman who can go out there and make a difference in people's lives and do it looking good, I might say. I've been married to her 20 years, I love her dearly. I'd say she's my hero at this point. And certainly any woman could benefit from spending a few minutes with Joanne, talking to them and teaching them about how they can take better care of themselves, their husbands, the relationships, how they could have a better life.

O'BRIEN: Joanne, hang onto him, boy, he's raving about you.

J. WEBB: I am.

O'BRIEN: Put him on the payroll, clearly.

As much as we joke about this, this is a legal case, and so we will wait to see exactly how it goes forward. Joanne Webb, and Chris Webb and Beann Sisemore, thanks to all of you for joining us this morning. Appreciate the time.

Let's turn to Jeffrey Toobin.

Wow, where do we begin? First, I guess, really, let's talk about the Texas law, and I read a chunk of it, but it says a person promotes or possesses with intent to promote any obscene material or obscene device. So it's kind of clear in one way.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, but,what's interesting about this is that the Texas sodomy case that the Supreme Court decided last June seems almost directly to deal with this, which, the court said, what you do behind closed doors, with consenting adults, is just something that is not the government's business. And I think it is likely that this prosecution just couldn't stand up under that law.

O'BRIEN: Is there another problem, too? There are some 200 representatives of these passion parties. So, Joanne seems to be the only one who's been targeted so far. Doesn't the law, even outside of the sodomy case, have to be applied across the board to everyone?

TOOBIN: Not necessarily. Prosecutors have a lot of discretion. You can't defend yourself usually in court by saying, well everybody does it, and you're only picking on me. Another problem, though, this law might have, any law that says if you call it an obscene device, it's illegal, but if you call it a novelty item, it's legal, I think you have a real kind of due process vagueness issue there that I think will be easy -- will not be easy, but will be difficult for the government to defend. But I want to follow this case.

O'BRIEN: No question.

TOOBIN: Forget Kobe, forget Michael Jackson, this is the case that I think is worth following.

O'BRIEN: He's taken on a whole new challenge, the sex toy case.

TOOBIN: My whole career as a legal analyst has been building around this case.

O'BRIEN: We'll we get to following it.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired December 17, 2003 - 08:37   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: To hear Joanne Webb tell it, the products that she sells are designed to enhance adult relationships. Authorities in Texas, though, see it a little bit differently. Joanne was arrested after selling a sex toy to undercover cops at one of her tupperware-style passion parties. Well now, the former teacher and mother of three is facing obscenity charges.
Joanne Webb joins us this morning from Burleson, Texas, along with her husband Chris, and her attorney Beann Sisemore. We also should note that we invited the Johnson County prosecutor to appear this morning or comment on the case, but he declined.

So good morning to all of you.

Joanne, let's begin with you. Give me a sense of the circumstances of your arrest. What exactly happened?

JOANNE WEBB, CHARGED WITH CRIMINAL OBSCENITY: Well, basically, the undercover narcotics detectives came to my office, and posing as a couple, and as I often do with young, married women, I educate them a little bit, I talk to them about my products, and how to enhance their relationship. They were very interested. They were young. They were cute. They were listening to everything I had to say. And they wanted to purchase some products then and there. I gave them my brochures to look through, and they chose some items, and I gave them to them.

O'BRIEN: Three days later, though, you were turning yourself in at the courthouse. Were you aware that there was a law on the books that forbids, I guess what they're calling -- what's the exact word, the possession with intent to promote any obscene material or obscene device. That's the Texas state law word for word. Were you aware that that was actually on the books?

WEBB: Obviously not. I was very proud of my business. I'd gone around town telling friends about it, trying to book some parties here in town. I'd even joined the chamber of commerce with my business. Obviously, I did not think anything was illegal about my business.

O'BRIEN: You're not the only representative of the passion parties in Texas. And we're talking about state law here. So why do you think you're a target?

WEBB: You know, that's a good question. I'm hoping that by the end of this, we'll find out.

O'BRIEN: Beann, as we mentioned, you are representing the family here. It's a misdemeanor, right?

BEANN SISEMORE, ATTORNEY FOR WOMAN CHARGED WITH OBSCENITY: That's correct.

WEBB: So give me a sense of literally what does your client face right now?

SISEMORE: Well, she could face up to a year in jail. And which is very concerning to all of us. But more concerning to us is that this is a lady that was a schoolteacher, a member of the chamber of commerce and very active in her city, and that what she wanted to do is try to help married couples because the divorce rate is rising, and she basically -- she has parties in private homes, with ladies that come there, that are over the age of 18.

O'BRIEN: Now correct me on the law here, forgive me for interrupting you there, but in Texas, my understanding is that adult stores can actually sell sex toys as long as they call them novelty items, right? So is the problem...

SISEMORE: As long as they lie to the public. If they lie to the public...

O'BRIEN: As long as they're called novelty items is the way the law reads when I read it, so I'll continue to go with that. If you had -- if your client had sold the items as novelty items, if she turned them over to the couple that came in, and said, you know, these are novelty items, would she be in the clear, do you think?

SISEMORE: I don't know, because you've got to understand that you have to put this in connection with, she has a private party and talks to ladies about being comfortable with their own sexuality, and in Texas, we're a more conservative group, and Southern ladies have been more conservative over the years, and our divorce rate is one of the highest around. And so what she tries to do is make sure that families stay together.

And so in answer to your question, I don't know, because this has not been enforced very much throughout the state, and certainly not in the private home.

O'BRIEN: I'm going to give the final question this morning to Chris, Joanne's husband, and I got to imagine what a shock to you to have your wife under arrest and all this.

Your wife, obviously, has made clear that she is going forward with this, because she really wants to change society. How has this been for you? You have businesses in town. You're upstanding members of the community. How are you all doing?

CHRIS WEBB, WIFE CHARGED WITH CRIMINAL OBSCENITY: Well, our businesses have slowed down dramatically. But I'm very proud of Joanne, she's making a difference in people's lives. She's intelligent, articulate, beautiful. She's a perfect example of a modern woman who can go out there and make a difference in people's lives and do it looking good, I might say. I've been married to her 20 years, I love her dearly. I'd say she's my hero at this point. And certainly any woman could benefit from spending a few minutes with Joanne, talking to them and teaching them about how they can take better care of themselves, their husbands, the relationships, how they could have a better life.

O'BRIEN: Joanne, hang onto him, boy, he's raving about you.

J. WEBB: I am.

O'BRIEN: Put him on the payroll, clearly.

As much as we joke about this, this is a legal case, and so we will wait to see exactly how it goes forward. Joanne Webb, and Chris Webb and Beann Sisemore, thanks to all of you for joining us this morning. Appreciate the time.

Let's turn to Jeffrey Toobin.

Wow, where do we begin? First, I guess, really, let's talk about the Texas law, and I read a chunk of it, but it says a person promotes or possesses with intent to promote any obscene material or obscene device. So it's kind of clear in one way.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, but,what's interesting about this is that the Texas sodomy case that the Supreme Court decided last June seems almost directly to deal with this, which, the court said, what you do behind closed doors, with consenting adults, is just something that is not the government's business. And I think it is likely that this prosecution just couldn't stand up under that law.

O'BRIEN: Is there another problem, too? There are some 200 representatives of these passion parties. So, Joanne seems to be the only one who's been targeted so far. Doesn't the law, even outside of the sodomy case, have to be applied across the board to everyone?

TOOBIN: Not necessarily. Prosecutors have a lot of discretion. You can't defend yourself usually in court by saying, well everybody does it, and you're only picking on me. Another problem, though, this law might have, any law that says if you call it an obscene device, it's illegal, but if you call it a novelty item, it's legal, I think you have a real kind of due process vagueness issue there that I think will be easy -- will not be easy, but will be difficult for the government to defend. But I want to follow this case.

O'BRIEN: No question.

TOOBIN: Forget Kobe, forget Michael Jackson, this is the case that I think is worth following.

O'BRIEN: He's taken on a whole new challenge, the sex toy case.

TOOBIN: My whole career as a legal analyst has been building around this case.

O'BRIEN: We'll we get to following it.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com