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American Morning
Facing Saddam
Aired December 17, 2003 - 07:45 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Were going to speak now with a member of the Iraqi Governing Council, a man who is the former foreign minister way back in the early to late 1960s -- 1968, in fact. The former foreign minister, Adnan Pachachi, now a member of the Iraqi Governing Council, ousted when Saddam Hussein and the Baath power came into control back in the late 1960s.
And, sir, I know you met face to face with Saddam Hussein -- in fact, just about 24 hours ago. What did you talk about with him? And what did you learn in that meeting?
ADNAN PACHACHI, IRAQI GOVERNING COUNCIL: Well, of course, we wanted first of all to make sure that it was him and not someone else. And then when we were sure that it was him, some questions were asked, and he answered some of these questions. And he was rather tired and haggard, and sometimes he seemed defiant, or even, you know, unrepentant. And sometimes he seemed a little incoherent.
So -- but it was important that we made it clear to him we are not trying to enjoy his humiliation or crow about it.
But I asked him why did he invade Kuwait, and he should have been -- he should have seized the opportunity to withdraw when that opportunity was given to him. And, yes, well, he said we considered Kuwait to be part of Iraq. I said, no, but when your party came to power in 1963 you recognized the independence of Kuwait and renounced that claim. He said, yes, that's true.
And then I asked him, why did you have to use such cruelty and kill so many people in order to be in power? He said, you know, Iraq needs a just and firm ruler. I said, but you're not a just ruler. You're a non-just ruler and rather cruel and despotic, and you caused the death of thousands of people. Was it worth it? And he didn't answer, of course.
And then other people asked him other questions about the mass graves, about Haracha (ph), about, you know, the wholesale killing of people in various parts of the country. And he tried to explain everything away. You know, sometimes he was dismissive even. But he never acknowledged that he has made any mistakes.
HEMMER: If I could...
PACHACHI: So, it was really...
HEMMER: If I could just interrupt here for a second here, Mr. Pachachi. Did you or anyone else ask him about whether or not he has any ties right now to the insurgency that's under way in current times in Iraq?
PACHACHI: No, we didn't ask him. We didn't ask him. It was really not a very long meeting. It was about half an hour really.
HEMMER: Well, how do you feel having met with him?
PACHACHI: No, we didn't ask him. Well, it was an extraordinary experience, of course. And -- but, you know, it's -- here, there was this man who just a short time ago was on top of the world, so to speak, and then we see him in this state. You know, this is -- what do you call it -- maybe poetic justice or whatever. But it's an extraordinary spectacle.
HEMMER: Yes, we only have about 15 seconds left here, sir. I know you met with Paul Bremer a bit earlier today. In fact, you just came out of a meeting with him. What can you share with us quickly about your meeting today?
PACHACHI: Yes, we were discussing the law -- the basic law for the transitional period. We had prepared -- we had gone quite a long way, and there are still a few things to be done. And he had some questions and some comments and ideas.
HEMMER: OK.
PACHACHI: Because under the agreement, which was concluded last month, we have -- we should consult all the time, so that the draft law would be ready for approval before the end of February.
HEMMER: OK, thank you, sir, for your time. Appreciate it. Adnan Pachachi, a member of the Iraqi Governing Council, with us today just across town here in the Iraqi capital. Thank you, sir. We'll talk again many times, I am certain.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.
Aired December 17, 2003 - 07:45 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Were going to speak now with a member of the Iraqi Governing Council, a man who is the former foreign minister way back in the early to late 1960s -- 1968, in fact. The former foreign minister, Adnan Pachachi, now a member of the Iraqi Governing Council, ousted when Saddam Hussein and the Baath power came into control back in the late 1960s.
And, sir, I know you met face to face with Saddam Hussein -- in fact, just about 24 hours ago. What did you talk about with him? And what did you learn in that meeting?
ADNAN PACHACHI, IRAQI GOVERNING COUNCIL: Well, of course, we wanted first of all to make sure that it was him and not someone else. And then when we were sure that it was him, some questions were asked, and he answered some of these questions. And he was rather tired and haggard, and sometimes he seemed defiant, or even, you know, unrepentant. And sometimes he seemed a little incoherent.
So -- but it was important that we made it clear to him we are not trying to enjoy his humiliation or crow about it.
But I asked him why did he invade Kuwait, and he should have been -- he should have seized the opportunity to withdraw when that opportunity was given to him. And, yes, well, he said we considered Kuwait to be part of Iraq. I said, no, but when your party came to power in 1963 you recognized the independence of Kuwait and renounced that claim. He said, yes, that's true.
And then I asked him, why did you have to use such cruelty and kill so many people in order to be in power? He said, you know, Iraq needs a just and firm ruler. I said, but you're not a just ruler. You're a non-just ruler and rather cruel and despotic, and you caused the death of thousands of people. Was it worth it? And he didn't answer, of course.
And then other people asked him other questions about the mass graves, about Haracha (ph), about, you know, the wholesale killing of people in various parts of the country. And he tried to explain everything away. You know, sometimes he was dismissive even. But he never acknowledged that he has made any mistakes.
HEMMER: If I could...
PACHACHI: So, it was really...
HEMMER: If I could just interrupt here for a second here, Mr. Pachachi. Did you or anyone else ask him about whether or not he has any ties right now to the insurgency that's under way in current times in Iraq?
PACHACHI: No, we didn't ask him. We didn't ask him. It was really not a very long meeting. It was about half an hour really.
HEMMER: Well, how do you feel having met with him?
PACHACHI: No, we didn't ask him. Well, it was an extraordinary experience, of course. And -- but, you know, it's -- here, there was this man who just a short time ago was on top of the world, so to speak, and then we see him in this state. You know, this is -- what do you call it -- maybe poetic justice or whatever. But it's an extraordinary spectacle.
HEMMER: Yes, we only have about 15 seconds left here, sir. I know you met with Paul Bremer a bit earlier today. In fact, you just came out of a meeting with him. What can you share with us quickly about your meeting today?
PACHACHI: Yes, we were discussing the law -- the basic law for the transitional period. We had prepared -- we had gone quite a long way, and there are still a few things to be done. And he had some questions and some comments and ideas.
HEMMER: OK.
PACHACHI: Because under the agreement, which was concluded last month, we have -- we should consult all the time, so that the draft law would be ready for approval before the end of February.
HEMMER: OK, thank you, sir, for your time. Appreciate it. Adnan Pachachi, a member of the Iraqi Governing Council, with us today just across town here in the Iraqi capital. Thank you, sir. We'll talk again many times, I am certain.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.
