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American Morning

Analysis of Rush Limbaugh, Martha Stewart Cases

Aired December 23, 2003 - 07:44   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: We are joined now by CNN legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin.
Jeffrey -- good morning.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Hi.

COOPER: Thanks for being with us.

First of all, let's talk about what's going on with the Rush Limbaugh case, the talk of the blackmail talk that came out from Roy Black, Limbaugh's attorney yesterday. What was the purpose of that? I mean, it didn't have anything to do with medical records.

TOOBIN: To generate a little sympathy for him, shift the attention a little bit. But Roy Black is no dummy. A Limbaugh spokesman yesterday said that he was in the process of working out a plea agreement. What Rush Limbaugh does not need in is a trial in this case. If he's charged with felonies relating to doctor shopping, he could really go to prison. If he reaches a plea bargain, he certainly will not. What he needs to do is get this thing behind him as soon as possible, and that's Roy Black appears to be doing.

COOPER: We should point out that the spokesperson for the radio station came out later in the day and then sort of backed off the word "plea agreement" -- the wording of it.

TOOBIN: But I firmly believe that this case not going to go to trial. And by the way, he has no chance of keeping those medical records secret, as far as I can tell. So, he's not going to win the legal ruling in front of him. He just needs to make this thing go away.

COOPER: All right, let's move on now to Martha Stewart, a case which is going forward. Really no chance of settling at this point.

TOOBIN: You know, there really isn't. It's the kind of technical SEC insider trading dispute that often does get settled, but this has been well over a year of investigation. She was indicted a while ago. The trial date is January 12, and it looks like it's going ahead.

COOPER: During an interview last night with Larry King she said she harbors no animosity toward prosecutors who are pressing obviously charges against her. Let's take a look at what she said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) LARRY KING, CNN HOST: You have no anger toward prosecutors, people coming after you?

MARTHA STEWART, FACES SECURITIES CHARGES: You have to really temper yourself during something like this.

KING: You can do that?

STEWART: Oh, I can. I can.

KING: I'd be through the roof.

STEWART: Well, what are you going to do?

KING: You can look at life that way: what are you going to do?

STEWART: What are you going to do? And there is a process. It must run its course, and you have to believe in the judicial system.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Well, she says that interview is going to be her last before trial.

A couple of questions on this. First of all, how does that Martha Stewart differ from the Martha Stewart you interviewed earlier this year?

TOOBIN: Very similar, actually. She's, you know, very tightly controlled. I mean, the woman who says she harbors no animosity does not harbor no animosity. I mean, you can see...

COOPER: Really, you think?

TOOBIN: Oh, yes. I mean, you can see that she's coiled with rage about this whole thing, and she deeply believes that she's innocent. Whether she is innocent or not, I can't say for sure. But, you know, the charge against her is very narrow. It's a very small case.

COOPER: It's also not insider trading. Everyone thinks it's insider trading.

TOOBIN: She was investigated for insider trading.

COOPER: Right.

TOOBIN: The question is -- the question in the investigation was: Why did she sell this stock the day before it dropped? She is not charged with knowing that the FDA was going to rule against this drug, which would make the stock drop. She's being prosecuted for lying about her reasons for selling the stock. It's not a very big case. You know, even if the sale was improper, it saved her $40,000. And for a woman who was at one point worth $1 billion, it just clearly drives her crazy that this kind of thing is what's dragged her down.

COOPER: Any chance of some sort of a plea agreement?

TOOBIN: I don't see it at all. I think she's the big fish here. She's got a co-defendant, Peter Bacanovic, the stockbroker. He's the one who has got the leverage to make a plea deal, but he hasn't made one yet. And if he, in fact, goes to trial as well, I think she's got a very good chance of getting acquitted.

COOPER: But if he pleads, then, I mean, that could go badly for her.

TOOBIN: That would be truly a disaster, because they are joined at the hip in their defense.

COOPER: Right, their stories match.

TOOBIN: They both claim that there was no insider trading here. But if Bacanovic, who has the chance to make a deal probably up until the last day, if he cuts a deal, she is pretty close to toast. But the reason he may not have cut a deal is that they're both simply innocent. I mean, we've got to entertainment that as a possibility.

COOPER: A very real possibility. All right, Jeffrey Toobin, thanks very much.

TOOBIN: OK.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.






Aired December 23, 2003 - 07:44   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: We are joined now by CNN legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin.
Jeffrey -- good morning.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Hi.

COOPER: Thanks for being with us.

First of all, let's talk about what's going on with the Rush Limbaugh case, the talk of the blackmail talk that came out from Roy Black, Limbaugh's attorney yesterday. What was the purpose of that? I mean, it didn't have anything to do with medical records.

TOOBIN: To generate a little sympathy for him, shift the attention a little bit. But Roy Black is no dummy. A Limbaugh spokesman yesterday said that he was in the process of working out a plea agreement. What Rush Limbaugh does not need in is a trial in this case. If he's charged with felonies relating to doctor shopping, he could really go to prison. If he reaches a plea bargain, he certainly will not. What he needs to do is get this thing behind him as soon as possible, and that's Roy Black appears to be doing.

COOPER: We should point out that the spokesperson for the radio station came out later in the day and then sort of backed off the word "plea agreement" -- the wording of it.

TOOBIN: But I firmly believe that this case not going to go to trial. And by the way, he has no chance of keeping those medical records secret, as far as I can tell. So, he's not going to win the legal ruling in front of him. He just needs to make this thing go away.

COOPER: All right, let's move on now to Martha Stewart, a case which is going forward. Really no chance of settling at this point.

TOOBIN: You know, there really isn't. It's the kind of technical SEC insider trading dispute that often does get settled, but this has been well over a year of investigation. She was indicted a while ago. The trial date is January 12, and it looks like it's going ahead.

COOPER: During an interview last night with Larry King she said she harbors no animosity toward prosecutors who are pressing obviously charges against her. Let's take a look at what she said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) LARRY KING, CNN HOST: You have no anger toward prosecutors, people coming after you?

MARTHA STEWART, FACES SECURITIES CHARGES: You have to really temper yourself during something like this.

KING: You can do that?

STEWART: Oh, I can. I can.

KING: I'd be through the roof.

STEWART: Well, what are you going to do?

KING: You can look at life that way: what are you going to do?

STEWART: What are you going to do? And there is a process. It must run its course, and you have to believe in the judicial system.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Well, she says that interview is going to be her last before trial.

A couple of questions on this. First of all, how does that Martha Stewart differ from the Martha Stewart you interviewed earlier this year?

TOOBIN: Very similar, actually. She's, you know, very tightly controlled. I mean, the woman who says she harbors no animosity does not harbor no animosity. I mean, you can see...

COOPER: Really, you think?

TOOBIN: Oh, yes. I mean, you can see that she's coiled with rage about this whole thing, and she deeply believes that she's innocent. Whether she is innocent or not, I can't say for sure. But, you know, the charge against her is very narrow. It's a very small case.

COOPER: It's also not insider trading. Everyone thinks it's insider trading.

TOOBIN: She was investigated for insider trading.

COOPER: Right.

TOOBIN: The question is -- the question in the investigation was: Why did she sell this stock the day before it dropped? She is not charged with knowing that the FDA was going to rule against this drug, which would make the stock drop. She's being prosecuted for lying about her reasons for selling the stock. It's not a very big case. You know, even if the sale was improper, it saved her $40,000. And for a woman who was at one point worth $1 billion, it just clearly drives her crazy that this kind of thing is what's dragged her down.

COOPER: Any chance of some sort of a plea agreement?

TOOBIN: I don't see it at all. I think she's the big fish here. She's got a co-defendant, Peter Bacanovic, the stockbroker. He's the one who has got the leverage to make a plea deal, but he hasn't made one yet. And if he, in fact, goes to trial as well, I think she's got a very good chance of getting acquitted.

COOPER: But if he pleads, then, I mean, that could go badly for her.

TOOBIN: That would be truly a disaster, because they are joined at the hip in their defense.

COOPER: Right, their stories match.

TOOBIN: They both claim that there was no insider trading here. But if Bacanovic, who has the chance to make a deal probably up until the last day, if he cuts a deal, she is pretty close to toast. But the reason he may not have cut a deal is that they're both simply innocent. I mean, we've got to entertainment that as a possibility.

COOPER: A very real possibility. All right, Jeffrey Toobin, thanks very much.

TOOBIN: OK.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.