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American Morning

Airline Security

Aired December 30, 2003 - 07:04   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Now the latest on the terrorist threat against the U.S. Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge says he is as concerned about a possible attack this week as he was last week around Christmas time. And with New Year's celebrations set for tomorrow night, some high-profile destinations are asking for more security.
Barbara Starr has one example. She joins us this morning from the Pentagon.

Barbara -- good morning.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Soledad.

Well, indeed, major cities are now reacting to the potential threat they perceive on New Year's Eve.

Now, just a couple of blocks from you in New York City, Times Square airspace will be closed. Nobody will be flying over Times Square on New Year's Eve.

And in the latest move, the city of Las Vegas, well, they, too, are going to close the airspace over the famous Las Vegas Strip on New Year's Eve. No private planes, no helicopters. None of this, though, will affect commercial air traffic.

Now, you know, there have been a number of these no-fly zones, if you will, established in the past. And here in Washington, D.C., much downtown of the nation's capital always is a no-fly zone with no traffic, but for New Year's Eve a couple of other places that we've learned about: Disney World, downtown Chicago, all of the major football games, no air traffic over these.

All of this is part of a continuing reaction, of course, to the code orange alert.

Now, yesterday, the homeland secretary, Tom Ridge, indeed made it official with a press conference late in the afternoon that now the U.S. will require countries to potentially place armed air marshals on their flights to, from and over the United States if there is a perceived intelligence threat. If they do not comply when they are asked, they may be denied landing rights here in the U.S.

Here's what the secretary had to say:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TOM RIDGE, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: Ultimately, a denial of access is the leverage that you have. And I must say that with the spirit of cooperation evidenced by our discussions with French and British officials and the like, it's pretty clear that it is understood by our international aviation partners that the threat to passenger aircraft is an international challenge.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STARR: Cooperation, yes, but still a ways to go with some countries. Of course, not all of them have trained air marshals, and some countries are already objecting, saying they do not want to place armed persons on board their commercial flights -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Barbara Starr for us at the Pentagon this morning. Barbara, thanks.

Will these new measures improve air security?

Joining us this morning is aviation security expert Charles Slepian.

Good morning. Nice to have you. Thanks for being with us.

CHARLES SLEPIAN, AVIATION SECURITY EXPERT: Good morning, Soledad. Thank you.

O'BRIEN: You heard Barbara pretty much lay out what the basic idea is. Give me a sense of where you think the weaknesses are. A lot of that press conference was actually fairly vague, many critics say.

SLEPIAN: Well, you know, we have a layered approach to aviation security in the United States, and it starts with knowing something about the background of the passengers and it goes through screening. And then you board the airplane, and you hope that the airplane itself is secure.

Remember, hijacking requires that the hijackers somehow get into the cockpit. There has been no mention of the cockpit doors on foreign carriers. All of our cockpit doors are reinforced. If you can't get into the cockpit, it lessens the need of air marshals on board the airplane.

Having said that, however, and Governor Ridge is entirely right, in that we ought to be able to rely on air marshals on board airplanes. Getting the cooperation of foreign carriers and foreign governments is a whole other issue.

O'BRIEN: That's sort of the $64,000 question at this point. And we heard Barbara sort of refer to some of the countries that are balking about having armed guards flying on planes. Do you think the bulk of countries will comply? Because the downside would be, OK, you can't fly over the U.S. or the U.S.

SLEPIAN: Well, I think it's going to depend on the scale of what we're asking them to do. We talked about potential threatened aircraft, aircraft flights coming into the United States. If it's going to be every flight, we're going to have a problem. If it's going to be a handful of flights, it might be easier to rely on them to do that.

But remember, in Britain, for instance there is a very, very strong feeling about firearms to begin with, and particularly firearms on airlines. We ought remember, too, that even in the United States, our pilots are not entirely comfortable with the notion that there is somebody back in the cabin with a firearm.

O'BRIEN: How logistically also will the U.S. be able to make sure that the standards are kept to U.S. standards on the various foreign flights?

SLEPIAN: We've had difficulty in maintaining standards with our own air marshal force. As a matter of fact, they were transferred to Customs not too long ago and taken out of the Transportation Security Administration. I think it's going to be difficult, if not impossible, to maintain a high level, a level that we would find acceptable here in the United States.

A lot of this has to do with the sense that people have about safety in travel. Now, I got off an Air France flight yesterday morning...

O'BRIEN: I was going to ask you about that. Recently -- so, give me a sense of -- compare and contrast security measures for me when you were flying on Air France.

SLEPIAN: Well, going through Charles de Gaulle Airport yesterday, it was a pleasure for a passenger, but probably an ideal situation for a hijacker, because we got to the airport very early, and we went right through security. I mean, there was very little attention paid to our carry-on bags. Belt buckles, jewelry and things of that nature did not set off magnetometers. There was no law enforcement.

O'BRIEN: You kept your shoes on walking through...

SLEPIAN: Kept my shoes on.

O'BRIEN: ... and kept your belt on walking through.

SLEPIAN: Exactly. We walked right through the system and just kind of looked at each other and said, 'My goodness, look at this, how easy it is.'

O'BRIEN: How about on the plane?

SLEPIAN: On the plane? There were a lot of people walking back and forth and loitering. I saw a couple of gentlemen standing outside of lavatories, which concerned me, because they were vacant and they weren't using them. On an American flight, they usually would be asked to sit down. But they were standing there and talking, and eventually they did sit down. However, when we landed at Kennedy airport, we were greeted as soon as the cabin door was opened by at least six uniformed federal law enforcement officers waiting for that flight to come in. And there was an announcement made that all passengers should be carrying their passports in their hand, and then two couples were asked to come forward on that aircraft.

O'BRIEN: A long way to go for some foreign airliners...

SLEPIAN: Indeed.

O'BRIEN: ... to get the strides that the U.S. has gotten to. Charles Slepian, it's nice to have you. Thanks for joining us this morning with some insight. Appreciate it.

SLEPIAN: Thank you for inviting me.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.







Aired December 30, 2003 - 07:04   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Now the latest on the terrorist threat against the U.S. Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge says he is as concerned about a possible attack this week as he was last week around Christmas time. And with New Year's celebrations set for tomorrow night, some high-profile destinations are asking for more security.
Barbara Starr has one example. She joins us this morning from the Pentagon.

Barbara -- good morning.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Soledad.

Well, indeed, major cities are now reacting to the potential threat they perceive on New Year's Eve.

Now, just a couple of blocks from you in New York City, Times Square airspace will be closed. Nobody will be flying over Times Square on New Year's Eve.

And in the latest move, the city of Las Vegas, well, they, too, are going to close the airspace over the famous Las Vegas Strip on New Year's Eve. No private planes, no helicopters. None of this, though, will affect commercial air traffic.

Now, you know, there have been a number of these no-fly zones, if you will, established in the past. And here in Washington, D.C., much downtown of the nation's capital always is a no-fly zone with no traffic, but for New Year's Eve a couple of other places that we've learned about: Disney World, downtown Chicago, all of the major football games, no air traffic over these.

All of this is part of a continuing reaction, of course, to the code orange alert.

Now, yesterday, the homeland secretary, Tom Ridge, indeed made it official with a press conference late in the afternoon that now the U.S. will require countries to potentially place armed air marshals on their flights to, from and over the United States if there is a perceived intelligence threat. If they do not comply when they are asked, they may be denied landing rights here in the U.S.

Here's what the secretary had to say:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TOM RIDGE, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: Ultimately, a denial of access is the leverage that you have. And I must say that with the spirit of cooperation evidenced by our discussions with French and British officials and the like, it's pretty clear that it is understood by our international aviation partners that the threat to passenger aircraft is an international challenge.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STARR: Cooperation, yes, but still a ways to go with some countries. Of course, not all of them have trained air marshals, and some countries are already objecting, saying they do not want to place armed persons on board their commercial flights -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Barbara Starr for us at the Pentagon this morning. Barbara, thanks.

Will these new measures improve air security?

Joining us this morning is aviation security expert Charles Slepian.

Good morning. Nice to have you. Thanks for being with us.

CHARLES SLEPIAN, AVIATION SECURITY EXPERT: Good morning, Soledad. Thank you.

O'BRIEN: You heard Barbara pretty much lay out what the basic idea is. Give me a sense of where you think the weaknesses are. A lot of that press conference was actually fairly vague, many critics say.

SLEPIAN: Well, you know, we have a layered approach to aviation security in the United States, and it starts with knowing something about the background of the passengers and it goes through screening. And then you board the airplane, and you hope that the airplane itself is secure.

Remember, hijacking requires that the hijackers somehow get into the cockpit. There has been no mention of the cockpit doors on foreign carriers. All of our cockpit doors are reinforced. If you can't get into the cockpit, it lessens the need of air marshals on board the airplane.

Having said that, however, and Governor Ridge is entirely right, in that we ought to be able to rely on air marshals on board airplanes. Getting the cooperation of foreign carriers and foreign governments is a whole other issue.

O'BRIEN: That's sort of the $64,000 question at this point. And we heard Barbara sort of refer to some of the countries that are balking about having armed guards flying on planes. Do you think the bulk of countries will comply? Because the downside would be, OK, you can't fly over the U.S. or the U.S.

SLEPIAN: Well, I think it's going to depend on the scale of what we're asking them to do. We talked about potential threatened aircraft, aircraft flights coming into the United States. If it's going to be every flight, we're going to have a problem. If it's going to be a handful of flights, it might be easier to rely on them to do that.

But remember, in Britain, for instance there is a very, very strong feeling about firearms to begin with, and particularly firearms on airlines. We ought remember, too, that even in the United States, our pilots are not entirely comfortable with the notion that there is somebody back in the cabin with a firearm.

O'BRIEN: How logistically also will the U.S. be able to make sure that the standards are kept to U.S. standards on the various foreign flights?

SLEPIAN: We've had difficulty in maintaining standards with our own air marshal force. As a matter of fact, they were transferred to Customs not too long ago and taken out of the Transportation Security Administration. I think it's going to be difficult, if not impossible, to maintain a high level, a level that we would find acceptable here in the United States.

A lot of this has to do with the sense that people have about safety in travel. Now, I got off an Air France flight yesterday morning...

O'BRIEN: I was going to ask you about that. Recently -- so, give me a sense of -- compare and contrast security measures for me when you were flying on Air France.

SLEPIAN: Well, going through Charles de Gaulle Airport yesterday, it was a pleasure for a passenger, but probably an ideal situation for a hijacker, because we got to the airport very early, and we went right through security. I mean, there was very little attention paid to our carry-on bags. Belt buckles, jewelry and things of that nature did not set off magnetometers. There was no law enforcement.

O'BRIEN: You kept your shoes on walking through...

SLEPIAN: Kept my shoes on.

O'BRIEN: ... and kept your belt on walking through.

SLEPIAN: Exactly. We walked right through the system and just kind of looked at each other and said, 'My goodness, look at this, how easy it is.'

O'BRIEN: How about on the plane?

SLEPIAN: On the plane? There were a lot of people walking back and forth and loitering. I saw a couple of gentlemen standing outside of lavatories, which concerned me, because they were vacant and they weren't using them. On an American flight, they usually would be asked to sit down. But they were standing there and talking, and eventually they did sit down. However, when we landed at Kennedy airport, we were greeted as soon as the cabin door was opened by at least six uniformed federal law enforcement officers waiting for that flight to come in. And there was an announcement made that all passengers should be carrying their passports in their hand, and then two couples were asked to come forward on that aircraft.

O'BRIEN: A long way to go for some foreign airliners...

SLEPIAN: Indeed.

O'BRIEN: ... to get the strides that the U.S. has gotten to. Charles Slepian, it's nice to have you. Thanks for joining us this morning with some insight. Appreciate it.

SLEPIAN: Thank you for inviting me.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.