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American Morning

Why Democratic Candidates Didn't Clash, Focused Criticisms on Bush

Aired January 23, 2004 - 08:04   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Let's get back to politics. Was it a kinder and gentler debate last night? That's how it looked to many, anyway, in New Hampshire. Who's the front runner now, ahead of next week's primary? The polls all say John Kerry. Howard Dean is behind, but by how much?
Bob Franken live in Manchester this morning watching things moving there -- Bob, good morning.

BOB FRANKEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kinder and gentler, I suppose, is a charitable way to put it. There was very little new ground that was broken. To be perfectly honest about it, the voters have heard time and again that virtually every Democrat agrees that taxes need to be restructured so the middle class can get more of a break. They agree that the president's conduct with Iraq is not exactly how they would have done it. There are disagreements to some degree, but they were certainly mildly expressed last night, about whether they would have voted to pass the resolution that authorized the war in Iraq.

There, of course, was unanimity on removing President Bush, some arguments about who was the most electable. But it was all very, very pleasant.

To be honest about it, people were looking to see how Dr. Dean would handle what had happened in Iowa. This was his first chance in a debate to try and get some new traction again. And what he did was he followed the Hippocratic oath -- first do no harm. He talked about the fact that he was probably justifiably teased for all the hooting and hollering in Iowa, to which Al Sharpton responded that if he had spent all that money and got 18 percent of the vote, he, too, would be hooting and hollering in Iowa.

But there was no hooting and hollering at the debate. It was not a be all end all. The polls have really not moved very much. Kerry is now the man on top and the debate seemed to have little influence on that. And as the election goes close, it's going to be a real fight for those who are down below to try and gain some of that momentum and try and overtake the people who are in the lead -- Bill.

HEMMER: And it is five days and counting.

Bob, thanks.

Bob Franken in Manchester.

Also talking about the debates from last night and the highlights and low lights there, senior analyst Jeff Greenfield back with us today in New Hampshire -- Jeff, good morning to you.

JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, good morning.

HEMMER: Help us understand why there was no clash last evening.

GREENFIELD: In the first place, Bill, the format, which did not allow for rebuttals, discouraged it. I think the attempt by the debate organizers was to let the candidates be heard more for themselves. I think the more important point was the Iowa effect. Both Howard Dean and Richard Gephardt, who were the most negative on television in their ads, got hurt by that and it was John Edwards, the sunny, optimist, no negativity here, who surge to a surprisingly high second place finish.

We did, however, see a couple of clear distinctions. When Howard Dean said, as he often has, that the Washington Democrats misjudged the situation by voting for the war in Iraq, Senator Joe Lieberman came back with a particularly passionate defense, describing Saddam as a homicidal maniac and saying again and again, America is safer because Saddam is in prison and not in power.

We also saw General Wes Clark, and this is the state that he staked his game on, by skipping Iowa. We heard General Clark respond to a rather unusual question. One of the questioners asked how he felt about the fact that filmmaker Michael Moore of "Bowling for Columbine," a man of the left who endorsed General Clark, had called President Bush a deserter for his National Guard experience, where the allegation is he didn't fulfill his requirement.

General Clark basically said I don't know about that, I've heard that, but Michael Moore is entitled to his opinion. That was a kind of an interesting twist in an otherwise pretty predictable debate.

HEMMER: Yes, a lot of people tuning in last night to see how Howard Dean may or may not clarify what happened in Iowa late on Monday night, also finishing third.

What was his aim last night?

GREENFIELD: I think his aim was redefinition and restoration. First, we saw in the debate, as we saw in his new ad campaign, now it is Howard Dean the chief executive of Vermont, the man of accomplishment rather than a more kind of passionate guy in that sense. The passionate part came in the second part I was talking about, restoration, reminding people after the Iowa defeat and that now famous Monday night tape that this was the guy who had inspired a political movement and I think trying to say, yes, I may go over the top sometimes, but it's because of my passionate beliefs.

We heard that particularly, as you'll see in a second, when a questioner asked Governor Dean is a guy who leads with his heart and not his head really the kind of guy we want as president? Here's what Dean said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DR. HOWARD DEAN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If you look at my record as governor, we balanced budgets. Every child in my state has health care. We do early intervention in kids following up 91 percent of all our kids to make -- and supporting the kids that are in trouble, supporting their families so they have a better chance of going to college than they do of going to prison.

Now, what I can offer the American people is somebody who believes in social justice tempered by being a fiscal conservative.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GREENFIELD: He actually went on to say, you know, we need a candidate with passion and if I err, it's better to err on the side of that passion.

The other thing that I think was notable about Governor Dean was he went out of his way to cite the fact that he had signed the first civil union bill permitting gay couples to have the rights and benefits that apply to most heterosexual couples. I think that was a pretty clear attempt to say to the mostly socially liberal New Hampshire Democrats -- that's who they are in these days -- I'm with you.

HEMMER: Any special moments, Jeff, that you take away from last night?

GREENFIELD: Yes, you know, if you wonder why John Edwards' supporters are so committed to this guy and are so impressed by his ability to frame an argument, I want you to look at this moment. This is Senator Edwards. He was actually asked a question about gay marriage. And he turned it instead and said, wait, I want to talk about something else that we haven't talked about.

Just watch this for a couple of seconds, please.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN EDWARDS (D-NC), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: There's been no discussion about 35 million Americans who live in poverty every single day, millions of Americans who work full-time for minimum wage and live in poverty. We have, in a country of our wealth -- if you'll let me finish -- in a country of our wealth and prosperity, we have children going to bed hungry. We have children who don't have the clothes to keep them warm. We should -- and I understand that maybe on some poll that may not be a big issue. But the truth is it's important. This is what -- we should talk about it and do something about it because it's wrong.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GREENFIELD: Now, Bill, if you want to know how the son of a mill worker made millions of dollars as a trial lawyer, you just saw an example. It's a classically right debate strategy. Whatever the question is, take control of the argument. I noticed in the latest polls, which we are all obsessed with, of course, that Edwards' favorability ratings are better than any other candidate, and while John Kerry clearly has moved into a very strong lead, keep your eye on John Edwards. Maybe not here, but this argument was pitched particularly at the next wave of primaries, South Carolina, with a 40 percent or more African-American turnout in the Democratic primary, where poverty and social justice, I think, are going to be important issues.

So I just want you to keep your eye on that as we get obsessed by these numbers.

HEMMER: Will do.

And I'll see you over the weekend.

Thank you, Jeff.

Talk to you later.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com




on Bush>


Aired January 23, 2004 - 08:04   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Let's get back to politics. Was it a kinder and gentler debate last night? That's how it looked to many, anyway, in New Hampshire. Who's the front runner now, ahead of next week's primary? The polls all say John Kerry. Howard Dean is behind, but by how much?
Bob Franken live in Manchester this morning watching things moving there -- Bob, good morning.

BOB FRANKEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kinder and gentler, I suppose, is a charitable way to put it. There was very little new ground that was broken. To be perfectly honest about it, the voters have heard time and again that virtually every Democrat agrees that taxes need to be restructured so the middle class can get more of a break. They agree that the president's conduct with Iraq is not exactly how they would have done it. There are disagreements to some degree, but they were certainly mildly expressed last night, about whether they would have voted to pass the resolution that authorized the war in Iraq.

There, of course, was unanimity on removing President Bush, some arguments about who was the most electable. But it was all very, very pleasant.

To be honest about it, people were looking to see how Dr. Dean would handle what had happened in Iowa. This was his first chance in a debate to try and get some new traction again. And what he did was he followed the Hippocratic oath -- first do no harm. He talked about the fact that he was probably justifiably teased for all the hooting and hollering in Iowa, to which Al Sharpton responded that if he had spent all that money and got 18 percent of the vote, he, too, would be hooting and hollering in Iowa.

But there was no hooting and hollering at the debate. It was not a be all end all. The polls have really not moved very much. Kerry is now the man on top and the debate seemed to have little influence on that. And as the election goes close, it's going to be a real fight for those who are down below to try and gain some of that momentum and try and overtake the people who are in the lead -- Bill.

HEMMER: And it is five days and counting.

Bob, thanks.

Bob Franken in Manchester.

Also talking about the debates from last night and the highlights and low lights there, senior analyst Jeff Greenfield back with us today in New Hampshire -- Jeff, good morning to you.

JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, good morning.

HEMMER: Help us understand why there was no clash last evening.

GREENFIELD: In the first place, Bill, the format, which did not allow for rebuttals, discouraged it. I think the attempt by the debate organizers was to let the candidates be heard more for themselves. I think the more important point was the Iowa effect. Both Howard Dean and Richard Gephardt, who were the most negative on television in their ads, got hurt by that and it was John Edwards, the sunny, optimist, no negativity here, who surge to a surprisingly high second place finish.

We did, however, see a couple of clear distinctions. When Howard Dean said, as he often has, that the Washington Democrats misjudged the situation by voting for the war in Iraq, Senator Joe Lieberman came back with a particularly passionate defense, describing Saddam as a homicidal maniac and saying again and again, America is safer because Saddam is in prison and not in power.

We also saw General Wes Clark, and this is the state that he staked his game on, by skipping Iowa. We heard General Clark respond to a rather unusual question. One of the questioners asked how he felt about the fact that filmmaker Michael Moore of "Bowling for Columbine," a man of the left who endorsed General Clark, had called President Bush a deserter for his National Guard experience, where the allegation is he didn't fulfill his requirement.

General Clark basically said I don't know about that, I've heard that, but Michael Moore is entitled to his opinion. That was a kind of an interesting twist in an otherwise pretty predictable debate.

HEMMER: Yes, a lot of people tuning in last night to see how Howard Dean may or may not clarify what happened in Iowa late on Monday night, also finishing third.

What was his aim last night?

GREENFIELD: I think his aim was redefinition and restoration. First, we saw in the debate, as we saw in his new ad campaign, now it is Howard Dean the chief executive of Vermont, the man of accomplishment rather than a more kind of passionate guy in that sense. The passionate part came in the second part I was talking about, restoration, reminding people after the Iowa defeat and that now famous Monday night tape that this was the guy who had inspired a political movement and I think trying to say, yes, I may go over the top sometimes, but it's because of my passionate beliefs.

We heard that particularly, as you'll see in a second, when a questioner asked Governor Dean is a guy who leads with his heart and not his head really the kind of guy we want as president? Here's what Dean said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DR. HOWARD DEAN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If you look at my record as governor, we balanced budgets. Every child in my state has health care. We do early intervention in kids following up 91 percent of all our kids to make -- and supporting the kids that are in trouble, supporting their families so they have a better chance of going to college than they do of going to prison.

Now, what I can offer the American people is somebody who believes in social justice tempered by being a fiscal conservative.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GREENFIELD: He actually went on to say, you know, we need a candidate with passion and if I err, it's better to err on the side of that passion.

The other thing that I think was notable about Governor Dean was he went out of his way to cite the fact that he had signed the first civil union bill permitting gay couples to have the rights and benefits that apply to most heterosexual couples. I think that was a pretty clear attempt to say to the mostly socially liberal New Hampshire Democrats -- that's who they are in these days -- I'm with you.

HEMMER: Any special moments, Jeff, that you take away from last night?

GREENFIELD: Yes, you know, if you wonder why John Edwards' supporters are so committed to this guy and are so impressed by his ability to frame an argument, I want you to look at this moment. This is Senator Edwards. He was actually asked a question about gay marriage. And he turned it instead and said, wait, I want to talk about something else that we haven't talked about.

Just watch this for a couple of seconds, please.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN EDWARDS (D-NC), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: There's been no discussion about 35 million Americans who live in poverty every single day, millions of Americans who work full-time for minimum wage and live in poverty. We have, in a country of our wealth -- if you'll let me finish -- in a country of our wealth and prosperity, we have children going to bed hungry. We have children who don't have the clothes to keep them warm. We should -- and I understand that maybe on some poll that may not be a big issue. But the truth is it's important. This is what -- we should talk about it and do something about it because it's wrong.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GREENFIELD: Now, Bill, if you want to know how the son of a mill worker made millions of dollars as a trial lawyer, you just saw an example. It's a classically right debate strategy. Whatever the question is, take control of the argument. I noticed in the latest polls, which we are all obsessed with, of course, that Edwards' favorability ratings are better than any other candidate, and while John Kerry clearly has moved into a very strong lead, keep your eye on John Edwards. Maybe not here, but this argument was pitched particularly at the next wave of primaries, South Carolina, with a 40 percent or more African-American turnout in the Democratic primary, where poverty and social justice, I think, are going to be important issues.

So I just want you to keep your eye on that as we get obsessed by these numbers.

HEMMER: Will do.

And I'll see you over the weekend.

Thank you, Jeff.

Talk to you later.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com




on Bush>