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American Morning

Interview With Senator Susan Collins

Aired January 29, 2004 - 08:13   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: The pre-war intelligence was wrong, but the decision to go to war was right. That is the assessment from David Kay, the former chief weapons hunter in Iraq. Kay told the Senate Armed Services Committee yesterday that U.S. intelligence failed in its analysis of Iraq's weapons programs.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID KAY, FMR. CHIEF U.S. WEAPONS INSPECTOR IN IRAQ: It is highly unlikely that there were large stockpiles of deployed militarized chemical and biological weapons there. Certainly, the intelligence service believed that there were WMD. It turns out we were all wrong, probably, in my judgment. And that is most disturbing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: Kay says he supports an independent investigation to determine what went wrong with American intelligence.

Joining us this morning from the Capitol is Senator Susan Collins of Maine. She is a member of the Armed Services Committee.

Nice to see you, Senator Collins. Thanks for being with us.

SEN. SUSAN COLLINS (R) MAINE: Good morning.

O'BRIEN: After listening to much testimony from David Kay, assess for me what you think in the very end what went wrong. Do you think the intelligence was misinterpreted, just bad, were there other political aspects at work here?

COLLINS: I don't think that political considerations factored into the intelligence report, but nevertheless, this represents some colossal failure, not just by American intelligence agencies, but from intelligence agencies all over the world and standing administrations. And the problem with that is we rely on those intelligence assessments in order to reach important decisions.

O'BRIEN: Earlier this morning, we were speaking to Rhode Island Senator Jack Reed, and he said that if there's an investigation, it should not just look into intelligence failures. It also has to look closely at the role of the White House. Listen to a little bit of what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) SEN. JACK REED (D-RI), ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE: Dr. Kay, who was very forthright in his conclusions about what was happening in Iraq, just refused to place the blame on anyone other than just the collective intelligence-gathering system. The administration is responsible for viewing that intelligence, selecting it, probing to see if it was valid, and you can't absolve the administration and simply blame the intelligence agencies.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: Do you think a closer look needs to be put on the administration and their rationale for what they did, in spite of the faultiness of the intelligence that was coming in?

COLLINS: Dr. Kay was very clear in his testimony that there was absolutely no political pressure on any of the analysts who were involved in writing these intelligence reports. And he's been very forthright, as Senator Reed said, in his assessments, and I don't think we have any reason to doubt it.

The Senate Intelligence Committee is already doing an in-depth investigation into what went wrong. I think that's appropriate and needed, and we should allow them to continue.

O'BRIEN: Do you think there should be an independent investigation and an independent investigation that wouldn't wait until the work of the Iraqi Survey Group is done?

COLLINS: I think we need to wait until the Intelligence Committee has completed its examination of the issues. Then we can decide whether another look by an outside group is warranted. But until the Intelligence Committee -- which, after all, is bipartisan, and has the expertise and the access to all of the documents and reports -- finishes its work, it would be premature to move to an outside group.

O'BRIEN: Senator Reed disagreed with you on that this morning, Senator Collins. He said there are such huge pressing international problems in addition to the scope of the mistake that actually an independent investigation should take place right now. Why would you argue against that?

COLLINS: Because we have an in-depth investigation already under way. This could be a duplication of effort. I think it makes sense to let the Intelligence Committee finish its work. It may be that we do need a look by an outside group but we don't know that yet. Let's wait and see what the Intelligence Committee's report says.

O'BRIEN: In the committee yesterday, one of the questions that you had for David Kay was the question about what Saddam Hussein actually knew. Do you think -- and tell me what David Kay responded to your question in this vein -- do you think Saddam Hussein was misled by his own team?

COLLINS: I do. David Kay testified yesterday that that was a very intriguing possibility. And based on the interviews of scientists, it seems that none of them wanted to give Saddam the bad news that they couldn't develop some of the weapons that he was seeking. And thus, I think it's increasingly likely that a conclusion that Saddam himself believed that he had weapons of mass destruction is the correct conclusion.

O'BRIEN: As you well know, in all of these, people like to find someone to blame. At the end of the day, who do you think deserves and will get the bulk of the blame? Is it George Tenet?

COLLINS: Well, again, I don't think we can conclude that yet, until we have the report from the Intelligence Committee. But, certainly, we need to have some sort of shakeup in our intelligence agencies. This is a colossal failure. It does span administrations, and it spans countries.

So, I think we need to take a hard look at how we gather information, whether we've been too reliant on non-human sources of intelligence and whether that was the cause of this very faulty and troubling flaw in the intelligence reports.

O'BRIEN: Senator Susan Collins, who is a Republican from Maine, is joining us this morning. Senator Collins, thank you.

COLLINS: Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.







Aired January 29, 2004 - 08:13   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: The pre-war intelligence was wrong, but the decision to go to war was right. That is the assessment from David Kay, the former chief weapons hunter in Iraq. Kay told the Senate Armed Services Committee yesterday that U.S. intelligence failed in its analysis of Iraq's weapons programs.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID KAY, FMR. CHIEF U.S. WEAPONS INSPECTOR IN IRAQ: It is highly unlikely that there were large stockpiles of deployed militarized chemical and biological weapons there. Certainly, the intelligence service believed that there were WMD. It turns out we were all wrong, probably, in my judgment. And that is most disturbing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: Kay says he supports an independent investigation to determine what went wrong with American intelligence.

Joining us this morning from the Capitol is Senator Susan Collins of Maine. She is a member of the Armed Services Committee.

Nice to see you, Senator Collins. Thanks for being with us.

SEN. SUSAN COLLINS (R) MAINE: Good morning.

O'BRIEN: After listening to much testimony from David Kay, assess for me what you think in the very end what went wrong. Do you think the intelligence was misinterpreted, just bad, were there other political aspects at work here?

COLLINS: I don't think that political considerations factored into the intelligence report, but nevertheless, this represents some colossal failure, not just by American intelligence agencies, but from intelligence agencies all over the world and standing administrations. And the problem with that is we rely on those intelligence assessments in order to reach important decisions.

O'BRIEN: Earlier this morning, we were speaking to Rhode Island Senator Jack Reed, and he said that if there's an investigation, it should not just look into intelligence failures. It also has to look closely at the role of the White House. Listen to a little bit of what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) SEN. JACK REED (D-RI), ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE: Dr. Kay, who was very forthright in his conclusions about what was happening in Iraq, just refused to place the blame on anyone other than just the collective intelligence-gathering system. The administration is responsible for viewing that intelligence, selecting it, probing to see if it was valid, and you can't absolve the administration and simply blame the intelligence agencies.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: Do you think a closer look needs to be put on the administration and their rationale for what they did, in spite of the faultiness of the intelligence that was coming in?

COLLINS: Dr. Kay was very clear in his testimony that there was absolutely no political pressure on any of the analysts who were involved in writing these intelligence reports. And he's been very forthright, as Senator Reed said, in his assessments, and I don't think we have any reason to doubt it.

The Senate Intelligence Committee is already doing an in-depth investigation into what went wrong. I think that's appropriate and needed, and we should allow them to continue.

O'BRIEN: Do you think there should be an independent investigation and an independent investigation that wouldn't wait until the work of the Iraqi Survey Group is done?

COLLINS: I think we need to wait until the Intelligence Committee has completed its examination of the issues. Then we can decide whether another look by an outside group is warranted. But until the Intelligence Committee -- which, after all, is bipartisan, and has the expertise and the access to all of the documents and reports -- finishes its work, it would be premature to move to an outside group.

O'BRIEN: Senator Reed disagreed with you on that this morning, Senator Collins. He said there are such huge pressing international problems in addition to the scope of the mistake that actually an independent investigation should take place right now. Why would you argue against that?

COLLINS: Because we have an in-depth investigation already under way. This could be a duplication of effort. I think it makes sense to let the Intelligence Committee finish its work. It may be that we do need a look by an outside group but we don't know that yet. Let's wait and see what the Intelligence Committee's report says.

O'BRIEN: In the committee yesterday, one of the questions that you had for David Kay was the question about what Saddam Hussein actually knew. Do you think -- and tell me what David Kay responded to your question in this vein -- do you think Saddam Hussein was misled by his own team?

COLLINS: I do. David Kay testified yesterday that that was a very intriguing possibility. And based on the interviews of scientists, it seems that none of them wanted to give Saddam the bad news that they couldn't develop some of the weapons that he was seeking. And thus, I think it's increasingly likely that a conclusion that Saddam himself believed that he had weapons of mass destruction is the correct conclusion.

O'BRIEN: As you well know, in all of these, people like to find someone to blame. At the end of the day, who do you think deserves and will get the bulk of the blame? Is it George Tenet?

COLLINS: Well, again, I don't think we can conclude that yet, until we have the report from the Intelligence Committee. But, certainly, we need to have some sort of shakeup in our intelligence agencies. This is a colossal failure. It does span administrations, and it spans countries.

So, I think we need to take a hard look at how we gather information, whether we've been too reliant on non-human sources of intelligence and whether that was the cause of this very faulty and troubling flaw in the intelligence reports.

O'BRIEN: Senator Susan Collins, who is a Republican from Maine, is joining us this morning. Senator Collins, thank you.

COLLINS: Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.