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American Morning

Interview with Syndicated Columnist Armstrong Williams

Aired February 10, 2004 - 07:15   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: There's a new twist in the Michael Jackson saga. One of his most vocal critics, conservative commentator Armstrong Williams, might be having a change of heart. Over the weekend and out of the blue, Williams says Michael Jackson telephoned him, and in a phone conservation included an offer for Williams to become Michael Jackson's new spokesman.
Armstrong Williams is with us this morning live in D.C.

Nice to have you here on AMERICAN MORNING. Good morning to you.

ARMSTRONG WILLIAMS, SYNDICATED COLUMNIST: Good morning, Bill. How are you?

HEMMER: I'm doing just fine. When will you meet with the pop star?

WILLIAMS: Soon.

HEMMER: This weekend.

WILLIAMS: Soon.

HEMMER: Not more than that, huh?

WILLIAMS: Not more than that.

HEMMER: You're not going to give me much more. What do you want to know from him? What are you going to ask him?

WILLIAMS: Well, I noticed in your tease you raised the question as to whether I had a change of heart. Listen, I stand firmly by what I have written in the past and what I've said in the past.

What is different now is that he's opened up a dialogue. He feels as though that people like myself and others in the media have been unfair to him. We've interviewed and talked to sources, not talking to anybody in his camp that really knows the true story. He's decided to just sit back and do nothing. He realizes that his credibility is in shambles, and that he needed to take the offensive. He needed to become more aggressive.

He picked up the phone and he called me. I mean, I must tell you, as someone in the media, we all care about the journalistic integrity to our profession, and we want people who read us and listen to us to believe us and trust us. And I think there are always two sides to every story. Look, Michael Jackson is a human being. He has a lot of troubles right now. He's going through a lot of trials and tribulations. But, you know, when he reached out to me, I listened. He said that he had a story to tell. He wanted me to listen. He felt that I would be fair to him. He felt that my criticism of him was about not knowing him and having a lack of information. And he asked to meet with me, and I committed that I would go out to meet with him. I mean, what better source to have than the person who is being accused?

Look, the one thing I realized in my conversation with him, it is not our job in the media to determine someone's innocence or guilt. That is for the courts to decide. But at least as we write about this person, who is -- I mean, who is devastated by this, at least if he picks up the phone -- and if he had picked up the phone and called you or Soledad, you guys would have taken a step back and I'm sure you would have done the same as I. You would have listened and would have said, yes, I would love to have an audience with you.

I am fascinated by him. I am fascinated by the story. I am stunned that he would have the strength of character to call someone like myself who has been a harsh critic. No, I won't change my mind. It's going to take more than a conversation and a meeting, but I'm at least willing to examine everything that's out there and listen to him, and at least give him the benefit of the doubt.

HEMMER: Let me...

WILLIAMS: In our court system, you are innocent until proven guilty.

HEMMER: Let me show you a little bit about what you wrote two months ago. We'll put it on the screen for our viewers. "So the important question becomes, why does this highly successful, intelligent and talented performer engage in self-destructive activities? How could he risk all of his wealth and power by acting so irresponsibly? Whether he considers it charming or not, sleeping with young children is savagely irresponsible."

Very strong words from you. Were you a fan of Michael Jackson growing up?

WILLIAMS: Yes, of course.

HEMMER: Yes, in the conversations, did you find yourself star struck at all?

WILLIAMS: No, no. I was in a state of shock. You know, I had known for some time that they were trying to reach me and engage me in a conversation with him. But I never believed it. I actually thought it was a joke. And I had all of these crazy messages while I was in San Antonio over the weekend, and I decided to return some of the calls. And sure enough, his publicist, Ramon Baine (ph), was on the phone and said he wants to talk to you now. He's tired of waiting. I said, OK, here's my hotel number and room number, just have him call me. And out of the blue, out of the blue, within five minutes, the phone rang. And I've got to tell you, Bill, at that moment there was no doubt in my mind that it was him, that he was sincere, and that he was reaching out.

And I was surprised at his strength and his understanding, because I assumed this guy lives in a dream world. And it is savagely irresponsible for any adult to sleep in bed with grown-ups. I mean, anyone, who would disagree with that? But, you know, he lives in a different world. He operates from a different value system. I want to learn more about his thinking, his sense of morality, his sense of right and wrong. I just don't know, but I'm willing to listen.

HEMMER: One more thing, if I could. A month and a half ago on CNN you said I don't know who is advising him, but I have to tell you something. He needs to clean house.

Will you become an adviser? Will you become the spokesperson for Michael Jackson?

WILLIAMS: No. You know, I'll tell you, it's interesting. He saw that interview, and he does need to clean house, and he is cleaning house. But he's not cleaning house because he's had a bad house. He's had a house that just did not have his best interested at heart. There are many people that he surrounded himself with that has done a lot of good for him. But it's time for him to move beyond that and find better people, because he's at a different stage in his life.

This is a serious lawsuit, and he's got to take it very seriously, and I think he's doing so. And so, you know, I embrace that, as I think we all will. And we'll just wait and see what happens.

HEMMER: Thank, Armstrong Williams in D.C. Soon you say. We'll be watching.

WILLIAMS: Soon.

HEMMER: Thank.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.







Aired February 10, 2004 - 07:15   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: There's a new twist in the Michael Jackson saga. One of his most vocal critics, conservative commentator Armstrong Williams, might be having a change of heart. Over the weekend and out of the blue, Williams says Michael Jackson telephoned him, and in a phone conservation included an offer for Williams to become Michael Jackson's new spokesman.
Armstrong Williams is with us this morning live in D.C.

Nice to have you here on AMERICAN MORNING. Good morning to you.

ARMSTRONG WILLIAMS, SYNDICATED COLUMNIST: Good morning, Bill. How are you?

HEMMER: I'm doing just fine. When will you meet with the pop star?

WILLIAMS: Soon.

HEMMER: This weekend.

WILLIAMS: Soon.

HEMMER: Not more than that, huh?

WILLIAMS: Not more than that.

HEMMER: You're not going to give me much more. What do you want to know from him? What are you going to ask him?

WILLIAMS: Well, I noticed in your tease you raised the question as to whether I had a change of heart. Listen, I stand firmly by what I have written in the past and what I've said in the past.

What is different now is that he's opened up a dialogue. He feels as though that people like myself and others in the media have been unfair to him. We've interviewed and talked to sources, not talking to anybody in his camp that really knows the true story. He's decided to just sit back and do nothing. He realizes that his credibility is in shambles, and that he needed to take the offensive. He needed to become more aggressive.

He picked up the phone and he called me. I mean, I must tell you, as someone in the media, we all care about the journalistic integrity to our profession, and we want people who read us and listen to us to believe us and trust us. And I think there are always two sides to every story. Look, Michael Jackson is a human being. He has a lot of troubles right now. He's going through a lot of trials and tribulations. But, you know, when he reached out to me, I listened. He said that he had a story to tell. He wanted me to listen. He felt that I would be fair to him. He felt that my criticism of him was about not knowing him and having a lack of information. And he asked to meet with me, and I committed that I would go out to meet with him. I mean, what better source to have than the person who is being accused?

Look, the one thing I realized in my conversation with him, it is not our job in the media to determine someone's innocence or guilt. That is for the courts to decide. But at least as we write about this person, who is -- I mean, who is devastated by this, at least if he picks up the phone -- and if he had picked up the phone and called you or Soledad, you guys would have taken a step back and I'm sure you would have done the same as I. You would have listened and would have said, yes, I would love to have an audience with you.

I am fascinated by him. I am fascinated by the story. I am stunned that he would have the strength of character to call someone like myself who has been a harsh critic. No, I won't change my mind. It's going to take more than a conversation and a meeting, but I'm at least willing to examine everything that's out there and listen to him, and at least give him the benefit of the doubt.

HEMMER: Let me...

WILLIAMS: In our court system, you are innocent until proven guilty.

HEMMER: Let me show you a little bit about what you wrote two months ago. We'll put it on the screen for our viewers. "So the important question becomes, why does this highly successful, intelligent and talented performer engage in self-destructive activities? How could he risk all of his wealth and power by acting so irresponsibly? Whether he considers it charming or not, sleeping with young children is savagely irresponsible."

Very strong words from you. Were you a fan of Michael Jackson growing up?

WILLIAMS: Yes, of course.

HEMMER: Yes, in the conversations, did you find yourself star struck at all?

WILLIAMS: No, no. I was in a state of shock. You know, I had known for some time that they were trying to reach me and engage me in a conversation with him. But I never believed it. I actually thought it was a joke. And I had all of these crazy messages while I was in San Antonio over the weekend, and I decided to return some of the calls. And sure enough, his publicist, Ramon Baine (ph), was on the phone and said he wants to talk to you now. He's tired of waiting. I said, OK, here's my hotel number and room number, just have him call me. And out of the blue, out of the blue, within five minutes, the phone rang. And I've got to tell you, Bill, at that moment there was no doubt in my mind that it was him, that he was sincere, and that he was reaching out.

And I was surprised at his strength and his understanding, because I assumed this guy lives in a dream world. And it is savagely irresponsible for any adult to sleep in bed with grown-ups. I mean, anyone, who would disagree with that? But, you know, he lives in a different world. He operates from a different value system. I want to learn more about his thinking, his sense of morality, his sense of right and wrong. I just don't know, but I'm willing to listen.

HEMMER: One more thing, if I could. A month and a half ago on CNN you said I don't know who is advising him, but I have to tell you something. He needs to clean house.

Will you become an adviser? Will you become the spokesperson for Michael Jackson?

WILLIAMS: No. You know, I'll tell you, it's interesting. He saw that interview, and he does need to clean house, and he is cleaning house. But he's not cleaning house because he's had a bad house. He's had a house that just did not have his best interested at heart. There are many people that he surrounded himself with that has done a lot of good for him. But it's time for him to move beyond that and find better people, because he's at a different stage in his life.

This is a serious lawsuit, and he's got to take it very seriously, and I think he's doing so. And so, you know, I embrace that, as I think we all will. And we'll just wait and see what happens.

HEMMER: Thank, Armstrong Williams in D.C. Soon you say. We'll be watching.

WILLIAMS: Soon.

HEMMER: Thank.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.