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American Morning

More on Bush's National Gaurd Service

Aired February 13, 2004 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: For the third time this week the White House has released information trying to deflect the criticism regarding the president's National Guard service record. Reporters were shown a copy of the president's Guard application, including parts that previously have been blacked out. The document shows that Mr. Bush admitted to a misdemeanor involving a 1966 colleague prank, stealing a wreath; two speeding tickets in '64; two collisions in 1962.
An applicant, we are told, would normally need a waiver to be accepted into the Guard with those kind of violations. The White House has not shown that the president had a waiver to this point.

A former National Guard officer claims that President Bush's service record was sanitized at the request of his aides before his first run for the White House. The story is in a book now about the president by Texas journalist James Moore.

A bit earlier, I talked with James Moore and the retired Lieutenant Colonel Bill Burkett, who made the claim.

I asked the former Guardsman to tell me what he heard back at the Texas Air National Guard in 1997.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LT. COL. BILL BURKETT (RET.), TEXAS NATIONAL GUARD: The facts are that I heard a conversation from the governor's office to the adjutant general of the State of Texas directing him to have the files assembled of Lieutenant George W. Bush and make sure that those files do not embarrass the governor. A second occurrence in which I heard the adjutant general pass that directive to other officials to take care of this issue, including the directive to make sure it doesn't embarrass the governor. And a third incident in which I was standing by a trash can that contained materials that came out of a personnel file in which the name at the top of those forms was Bush, George W., 1LT.

HEMMER: Let's stop there a second. Over what period of time do you say this happened?

BURKETT: The first call from the first occurrence was on day one, the second occurrence on day two and the third occurrence approximately 10 days after that.

HEMMER: And was anyone else in the area but you to hear this? BURKETT: On the first occurrence I'm not sure of that. On the second occurrence there were several people in the area. And on the third occurrence, yes, there were.

HEMMER: And now this is just what you heard, right? There's nothing written down that you can prove this, correct?

BURKETT: I told other people. I corroborated that information and I also wrote it into my, what we normally do as management consultants as daily close out reports of any issues or circumstances that we did see or encounter during the day that might be a future problem.

HEMMER: Has any of those people come forward?

BURKETT: I'm not aware. I'm not, you know, that's not my responsibility or not, that's not my business. That's yours. In my particular case, I've stated the facts since 1997. I've stated those facts to the members of the state legislature, both Republicans and Democrats. I've stated that fact to Department of Defense officials. I've stated that fact under oath before a deposition in front of the I.G. of the National Guard. And I've stated that fact before god.

The facts were the same in 1997 as they are today and the facts, again, I've been asked the question, I answered the question.

HEMMER: Joe Albaugh, who was the governor's aide at the time, could not come on our show, but he offered the following statement. In one word, he says this is "hogwash." Also, General Daniel James, in Texas at the time, told the press, "I have never been involved in nor would I condone any discussion or any action to falsify any record in any circumstance for anyone." That is a quote.

General John Scribner, in Texas at the time; Dan Bartlett (ph), communications director, all dismissing your allegations and the story you're relaying.

Are those gentlemen lying, Mr. Burkett?

BURKETT: I, I'm not going to make any judgment of their motive. I know I'm telling the truth and that's all that's necessary.

HEMMER: To Mr. Moore, you have a book out about this based largely, in part, on the story of Mr. Burkett. There may be many people who look at this book as a possibility for you to sell more copies and get more publicity.

To that you say what?

JAMES MOORE, AUTHOR, "BUSH'S WAR FOR REELECTION": I say that I've been looking at this since I first asked Governor Bush about the National Guard in 1994 and how he got into it with family privilege and how he got out, how he disappeared. This goes to his moral authority to send our sons and daughters into combat and to tell them that they have to go, whether they're in the National Guard or not, to call them to active duty. If our country and our young people were as capricious about their commitment to the National Guard today as George W. Bush was back then, we would be in a big mess in the war on terror right now.

HEMMER: Mr. Moore, and to Mr. Burkett, would you classify yourselves as Democrats or Republicans?

MOORE: I voted for George W. Bush on three occasions, every time I had a chance to vote for him as governor in Texas, and for president of the United States. I've been sucker punched, just like everybody in America. I trusted him. He has betrayed my trust as a Texan and as an American. I won't vote for him again.

HEMMER: Mr. Burkett?

BURKETT: As a management consultant and a soldier, let me be clear, as a lieutenant colonel, all the way through private in one direction and through general in the other direction, you're not supposed to be a Republican or a Democrat. You're supposed to be a soldier. You're supposed to be a patriot and you're supposed to be a citizen of this nation and you salute presidents of both parties. And you work for presidents.

But it should be clear, however, that I worked for to make President -- excuse me -- Governor George W. Bush a hero, to improve the Texas National Guard. I, in essence, was supporting a Republican governor.

HEMMER: Both those interviews taking place late last night.

The White House this week dismissing Burkett's charge, calling the quote "an outrageously false statement."

Retired Colonel William Campenni served with the president in the Air National Guard in the early 1970s.

I talked to him earlier today and asked him his reaction to what we just heard from Mr. Burkett and Mr. Moore.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COL. WILLIAM CAMPENNI (RET.), AIR FORCE, AIR NATIONAL GUARD: Actually, I have no comment at all. That seems like inside political baseball down there in Texas there and I wasn't involved in that so I have no comment on that particular thing. The only thing I could comment on is the facts of the situation, on the -- how the Guard system works.

HEMMER: To the politics issue, though, you say it's all politics at this point, based on what you've heard? No facts?

CAMPENNI: Well, you'd be naive to think otherwise. Of course it's all politics. Why weren't these things coming out in the past if they're not?

HEMMER: Tell us your experience with the president in the early '70s in the Air National Guard. CAMPENNI: Well, the essence of it is we overlapped a period from 1970 to '71 as pilots in the 111 Fighter Interceptor Squadron. That's sort of the exposure there. More importantly, a lot of the information that's been getting out, or the misinformation that's been getting out about the Guard and how the system works as far as people and their performance and their duties, and that has been pure nonsense and it reflects a gross amount of ignorance on the part of the people making the comments. And that's why I wanted to address some of the issues of very, through a newspaper letter to the editor that I wrote to try and explain to people just how the Guard system works then and now so that a lot of this nonsense hopefully can be put aside.

Obviously it's not, it's going to all be put aside on November 3, 2004, when the election is over.

HEMMER: Colonel, let me share the part of that article that you just referenced in the "Washington Times" and read it for our viewers now. "As for abandoning his assignment, this is untrue," you write. "Lieutenant Bush was excused for a period to take employment in Florida for a congressman and later in Alabama for a senate campaign. Excuses for employment were common then are now in the Air Guard, as pilots frequently are in career transitions."

If you could explain that a bit more for us about what you mean about the possibility of gaps in service.

CAMPENNI: Sure. Remember that Guardsmen are not full time military. There are people with regular jobs. They have the regular career decisions and break points that you and I have in our civilian world.

In the Guard, we have these assets. We consider some of them, especially pilots, highly skilled assets that you don't pick up off the street easily. So when we try and be flexible in working with them when they have to make some career adjustments.

For instance, I had people on my staff when I was a commander that would get hired by the airlines. We'd let them get off for the three or six months the airline training would require. They wouldn't be pulling drills or they'd be pulling drills with some remote unit. They wouldn't be flying. They'd be just doing some administrative work and then they'd come on back home and we'd get them recurrent and everything.

It's common then, it's common now. We try and work with our people because we realize they have a life outside the Guard.

HEMMER: Do you know Mr. Burkett or Mr. Moore, the gentlemen we just heard a short time ago?

CAMPENNI: Neither one of them. The first time I ever heard or saw them was when this all came out.

HEMMER: The first time ever...

CAMPENNI: Yes.

HEMMER: ... before this story broke?

CAMPENNI: The first time ever. Yes, I sure didn't see them in the 111 Fighter Interceptor Squadron in 1970-71.

HEMMER: Can you explain why it is that very few people have come forward to say that they were with the president in the early '70s in Alabama?

CAMPENNI: It was 30 years ago, that's why. Some of them are deceased. Two of the people that could talk most of George Bush's duties there happen to be deceased, his flight commander and his squadron commander. That makes it difficult. There are people out there. I'm surprised that the news hasn't been able to go out and get them. This issue, I thought, was buried four years ago. But it seems like it's going to come up any time there's a political issue involved.

It's a lot to do about nothing. There's no big deal here. It happens all the time. I did it myself when I transferred between Guard units and I allowed people when I was a commander to do it under me. I had people from other states that would temporarily be under my jurisdiction -- not jurisdiction, I'd just verify their attendance when they came to pull up some drills and then they'd return to their home unit. It's no big deal.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HEMMER: Colonel Campenni from about an hour ago here on videotape.

President Bush maintains he fulfilled his National Guard obligation and the White House points out that he was honorably discharged.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired February 13, 2004 - 07:30   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: For the third time this week the White House has released information trying to deflect the criticism regarding the president's National Guard service record. Reporters were shown a copy of the president's Guard application, including parts that previously have been blacked out. The document shows that Mr. Bush admitted to a misdemeanor involving a 1966 colleague prank, stealing a wreath; two speeding tickets in '64; two collisions in 1962.
An applicant, we are told, would normally need a waiver to be accepted into the Guard with those kind of violations. The White House has not shown that the president had a waiver to this point.

A former National Guard officer claims that President Bush's service record was sanitized at the request of his aides before his first run for the White House. The story is in a book now about the president by Texas journalist James Moore.

A bit earlier, I talked with James Moore and the retired Lieutenant Colonel Bill Burkett, who made the claim.

I asked the former Guardsman to tell me what he heard back at the Texas Air National Guard in 1997.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LT. COL. BILL BURKETT (RET.), TEXAS NATIONAL GUARD: The facts are that I heard a conversation from the governor's office to the adjutant general of the State of Texas directing him to have the files assembled of Lieutenant George W. Bush and make sure that those files do not embarrass the governor. A second occurrence in which I heard the adjutant general pass that directive to other officials to take care of this issue, including the directive to make sure it doesn't embarrass the governor. And a third incident in which I was standing by a trash can that contained materials that came out of a personnel file in which the name at the top of those forms was Bush, George W., 1LT.

HEMMER: Let's stop there a second. Over what period of time do you say this happened?

BURKETT: The first call from the first occurrence was on day one, the second occurrence on day two and the third occurrence approximately 10 days after that.

HEMMER: And was anyone else in the area but you to hear this? BURKETT: On the first occurrence I'm not sure of that. On the second occurrence there were several people in the area. And on the third occurrence, yes, there were.

HEMMER: And now this is just what you heard, right? There's nothing written down that you can prove this, correct?

BURKETT: I told other people. I corroborated that information and I also wrote it into my, what we normally do as management consultants as daily close out reports of any issues or circumstances that we did see or encounter during the day that might be a future problem.

HEMMER: Has any of those people come forward?

BURKETT: I'm not aware. I'm not, you know, that's not my responsibility or not, that's not my business. That's yours. In my particular case, I've stated the facts since 1997. I've stated those facts to the members of the state legislature, both Republicans and Democrats. I've stated that fact to Department of Defense officials. I've stated that fact under oath before a deposition in front of the I.G. of the National Guard. And I've stated that fact before god.

The facts were the same in 1997 as they are today and the facts, again, I've been asked the question, I answered the question.

HEMMER: Joe Albaugh, who was the governor's aide at the time, could not come on our show, but he offered the following statement. In one word, he says this is "hogwash." Also, General Daniel James, in Texas at the time, told the press, "I have never been involved in nor would I condone any discussion or any action to falsify any record in any circumstance for anyone." That is a quote.

General John Scribner, in Texas at the time; Dan Bartlett (ph), communications director, all dismissing your allegations and the story you're relaying.

Are those gentlemen lying, Mr. Burkett?

BURKETT: I, I'm not going to make any judgment of their motive. I know I'm telling the truth and that's all that's necessary.

HEMMER: To Mr. Moore, you have a book out about this based largely, in part, on the story of Mr. Burkett. There may be many people who look at this book as a possibility for you to sell more copies and get more publicity.

To that you say what?

JAMES MOORE, AUTHOR, "BUSH'S WAR FOR REELECTION": I say that I've been looking at this since I first asked Governor Bush about the National Guard in 1994 and how he got into it with family privilege and how he got out, how he disappeared. This goes to his moral authority to send our sons and daughters into combat and to tell them that they have to go, whether they're in the National Guard or not, to call them to active duty. If our country and our young people were as capricious about their commitment to the National Guard today as George W. Bush was back then, we would be in a big mess in the war on terror right now.

HEMMER: Mr. Moore, and to Mr. Burkett, would you classify yourselves as Democrats or Republicans?

MOORE: I voted for George W. Bush on three occasions, every time I had a chance to vote for him as governor in Texas, and for president of the United States. I've been sucker punched, just like everybody in America. I trusted him. He has betrayed my trust as a Texan and as an American. I won't vote for him again.

HEMMER: Mr. Burkett?

BURKETT: As a management consultant and a soldier, let me be clear, as a lieutenant colonel, all the way through private in one direction and through general in the other direction, you're not supposed to be a Republican or a Democrat. You're supposed to be a soldier. You're supposed to be a patriot and you're supposed to be a citizen of this nation and you salute presidents of both parties. And you work for presidents.

But it should be clear, however, that I worked for to make President -- excuse me -- Governor George W. Bush a hero, to improve the Texas National Guard. I, in essence, was supporting a Republican governor.

HEMMER: Both those interviews taking place late last night.

The White House this week dismissing Burkett's charge, calling the quote "an outrageously false statement."

Retired Colonel William Campenni served with the president in the Air National Guard in the early 1970s.

I talked to him earlier today and asked him his reaction to what we just heard from Mr. Burkett and Mr. Moore.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COL. WILLIAM CAMPENNI (RET.), AIR FORCE, AIR NATIONAL GUARD: Actually, I have no comment at all. That seems like inside political baseball down there in Texas there and I wasn't involved in that so I have no comment on that particular thing. The only thing I could comment on is the facts of the situation, on the -- how the Guard system works.

HEMMER: To the politics issue, though, you say it's all politics at this point, based on what you've heard? No facts?

CAMPENNI: Well, you'd be naive to think otherwise. Of course it's all politics. Why weren't these things coming out in the past if they're not?

HEMMER: Tell us your experience with the president in the early '70s in the Air National Guard. CAMPENNI: Well, the essence of it is we overlapped a period from 1970 to '71 as pilots in the 111 Fighter Interceptor Squadron. That's sort of the exposure there. More importantly, a lot of the information that's been getting out, or the misinformation that's been getting out about the Guard and how the system works as far as people and their performance and their duties, and that has been pure nonsense and it reflects a gross amount of ignorance on the part of the people making the comments. And that's why I wanted to address some of the issues of very, through a newspaper letter to the editor that I wrote to try and explain to people just how the Guard system works then and now so that a lot of this nonsense hopefully can be put aside.

Obviously it's not, it's going to all be put aside on November 3, 2004, when the election is over.

HEMMER: Colonel, let me share the part of that article that you just referenced in the "Washington Times" and read it for our viewers now. "As for abandoning his assignment, this is untrue," you write. "Lieutenant Bush was excused for a period to take employment in Florida for a congressman and later in Alabama for a senate campaign. Excuses for employment were common then are now in the Air Guard, as pilots frequently are in career transitions."

If you could explain that a bit more for us about what you mean about the possibility of gaps in service.

CAMPENNI: Sure. Remember that Guardsmen are not full time military. There are people with regular jobs. They have the regular career decisions and break points that you and I have in our civilian world.

In the Guard, we have these assets. We consider some of them, especially pilots, highly skilled assets that you don't pick up off the street easily. So when we try and be flexible in working with them when they have to make some career adjustments.

For instance, I had people on my staff when I was a commander that would get hired by the airlines. We'd let them get off for the three or six months the airline training would require. They wouldn't be pulling drills or they'd be pulling drills with some remote unit. They wouldn't be flying. They'd be just doing some administrative work and then they'd come on back home and we'd get them recurrent and everything.

It's common then, it's common now. We try and work with our people because we realize they have a life outside the Guard.

HEMMER: Do you know Mr. Burkett or Mr. Moore, the gentlemen we just heard a short time ago?

CAMPENNI: Neither one of them. The first time I ever heard or saw them was when this all came out.

HEMMER: The first time ever...

CAMPENNI: Yes.

HEMMER: ... before this story broke?

CAMPENNI: The first time ever. Yes, I sure didn't see them in the 111 Fighter Interceptor Squadron in 1970-71.

HEMMER: Can you explain why it is that very few people have come forward to say that they were with the president in the early '70s in Alabama?

CAMPENNI: It was 30 years ago, that's why. Some of them are deceased. Two of the people that could talk most of George Bush's duties there happen to be deceased, his flight commander and his squadron commander. That makes it difficult. There are people out there. I'm surprised that the news hasn't been able to go out and get them. This issue, I thought, was buried four years ago. But it seems like it's going to come up any time there's a political issue involved.

It's a lot to do about nothing. There's no big deal here. It happens all the time. I did it myself when I transferred between Guard units and I allowed people when I was a commander to do it under me. I had people from other states that would temporarily be under my jurisdiction -- not jurisdiction, I'd just verify their attendance when they came to pull up some drills and then they'd return to their home unit. It's no big deal.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HEMMER: Colonel Campenni from about an hour ago here on videotape.

President Bush maintains he fulfilled his National Guard obligation and the White House points out that he was honorably discharged.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com